Monthly Archives: May 2009

A Shared History And Blogging Presbyterians

There are times when I start talking about the Church Fathers, especially Augustine, that people’s eyes glaze over and sometimes complain that “he was a Catholic theologian” (usually not in as many words though).

Well, besides the fact that John Calvin incorporated a lot of Augustine’s thinking in his own work, many in the Reformed Tradition seem to forget the fact that in the roughly 2000 years of the Christian Church, the present Reformed Church has only been around for one-quarter of that time.  (And I say “present Reformed Church” because the object of the Reformation, and of our “always being reformed” is to more closely follow the pattern of the early New Testament church.  But that is a topic for another time…)

In the same manner many in the mainline American Presbyterian Church think that all those other Presbyterian branches running around are just groups that “broke off from us.”  They forget that the mainline has split and merged three times itself and that at the time of the American Civil War there were four parts to the mainline church (if it can be thought of as mainline at that time) and the present PC(USA) has, as a merged body, only been in existence for less than 10% of the history of American Presbyterianism.

(As an interesting aside, with the controversy in the Church of Scotland this past week I have been correlating their history with the American Presbyterian history.  The major Scottish split, “The Disruption of 1843” is about the same time as the American Old School/New School split of 1837.  I’ll be looking into that further to see about connections.)

All of this to say that there is a whole bunch of American Presbyterian history that the majority of modern Presbyterian branches share.  With that in mind the following three blogs may be of interest to others who share an interest in Presbyterian history, or at least what got us to the point we are now at polity-wise.  Don’t expect these blogs to always be “mainline friendly,” but they provide great historical insights into where we are now.

Old Life Theological Society – The moment I heard that Darryl Hart was a contributor to this blog I was hooked.  The material is a mix of current events and historical information, but even the posts about current topics come with a good dose of historical perspective.

The PCA Historical Center has just started two new blogs as well.  (Remember that shared history?  If you want the historical background on the PC(USA) Book of Order that came from the PCUS branch they have all of that online.)  Thanks to Mr. Wayne Sparkman, the director of the PCA Historical Center for overseeing these two new blogs.

The first one is the PCA History Blog and the description says that this is a place for people to share their stories about the PCA.

The second one is The Continuing Story and the purpose says that it  “. . . is to provide a convenient place to share some of the wealth of
treasure to be found in the archives at the PCA Historical Center.”  Among the information posted so far are pictures of the oldest item in the collection, a 1641 Calvin medal struck for the centennial celebration of Calvin’s return to Geneva.

So here is more information to keep us GA Junkies educated.  Thanks for the blogs and happy reading.

General Assembly of the Church of Scotland — Say What?

To use the line from the old Westerns — “It’s quiet around here.  Too quiet.”

Yes, at least for the last day it does seem that office holders and members of the Church of Scotland have been observing the “urged” “quiet period” regarding public discussion of issues related to human sexuality.  One day down, 735 to go.  (For the record, I am an office holder and member in another Presbyterian denomination.  I can’t imagine our gang being so well behaved.)

Anyway, sarcasm, cliches, and snarky comments aside, I have to admit that I have been very impressed with how “all the usual suspects,” on both sides of the issue, have taken this to heart.  Stewart Cutler did comment on the “gag” order itself.  Ian Watson posted the text of a news story about the quiet period.  Danny expresses the concern that waiting another two years just allows each side to become entrenched.  And Chris Hoskins, in his reflection on Monday, says he’ll avoid that topic in his daily reflection.

What are the instructions?  The minutes have not been posted yet, and I don’t see a full read-back in the daily updates, but tracking back the changes (and checking it against Stewart’s text) it seems that the sections dealing with the quiet period say

2. Instruct all Courts, Councils and Committees of the Church not to
issue press statements or talk to the media or to make public comment,
whether in publications or otherwise, on decision-making in relation to
contentious matters of human sexuality, with respect to Ordination and
Induction to the Ministry of the Church of Scotland, until 31 May 2011;

and

3. Urge all members who are subject to the discipline of the Courts of
the Church of Scotland to act in accordance with the process outlined
in 1 and 2.

And it was understood in the debate that blogging was included in the prohibited communication.

The exact parameters are still not specifically understood and I am sure the boundaries will be worked out as people “test the limits” of the motion.  As people have a chance to think this through there may be official guidelines.  And while I consider it unlikely, there may even be a complete breakdown for individuals since the term is “urge,” not a strict instruction like “shall,” leaving little force for ensuring compliance.  In fact, the limits are being tested already, as reported by the Scotsman, with one minister writing a letter to that paper criticizing the Assembly’s earlier action in the Aberdeen case.  As a member of a presbytery it is being debated if he is representing the presbytery after being “instructed” not to comment, or acting as an individual after being “urged” not to.  As is customary in Presbyterian polity it will be up to the presbytery to decide on a case to discipline a member.

And what constitutes “public comment?”  Could the suggested actions of some sessions to withold their payments to the larger church in protest be considered a form of public comment?  This is a form of protest and comment that has been used in the PC(USA) and has clearly gotten the attention of some governing bodies there.

So there are many uncertainties and two years to go with this.  We will see what understandings develop as time goes on.

General Assembly of the Church of Scotland — Reaction To The Judicial Case

With about two days since the Assembly made its decision in the case of the Dissent and Complaint Against a Decision by the Presbytery of Aberdeen more information and reaction is now available on the web.

First, for the details of the Assembly session I have found no better source than the official audio summary from the Church of Scotland found on the Daily News Updates page.  For those interested in the polity details there is no other source that goes into the details of how the case proceeded and what was actually being decided.  This case was not about the particular individual or ordination standards in general, but whether the Presbytery of Aberdeen had specifically followed the procedures for reviewing the call to the charge as stated in Acts VIII 2003 (DOC Format).  (That is a church law reference, not a scriptural one.)

Specifically, the two points of complaint were:

Aberdeen Presbytery was therefore wrong to take a decision that was contrary to the stated position and practice of the Church in sustaining the call to a minister in a self professed active homosexual relationship.

The Presbytery of Aberdeen, in sustaining the call to a minister in an avowedly active homosexual relationship, has also acted contrary to the commitment to ‘prayerful dialogue’ urged on us all by the General Assembly of 2007.

The problem that the complainers had was that there is no specific section in the Church of Scotland polity that sets standards for these situations in the manner of the PC(USA) G-6.0106b.  (Hence today’s overture.)  The complaint argues from “the historic and orthodox position of the church,” and a 2007 GA report that says the Kirk does not see orientation as a barrier to service but that there is disagreement over homosexual activity.  The complaint also says “The ordination and induction of active homosexuals has never been the accepted practice of the Church of Scotland or the Church catholic, except where there has first been a clear debate and decision to ordain active homosexuals.”

A few other interesting details about the process from the audio update:  The commissioners from the presbytery against which the complaint is filed (Aberdeen) may not participate as commissioners or vote.  Being a judicial case the commissioners are to come to the case without “preconceived notions.”  This is a bit different than my previous comments.  In the discussion about the wider effects of this cases outcome the commissioners were informed that a decision in a judicial case does not set standards for the wider church and that whether a particular case sets a precedent can not be know at the time of the case but only when it is used as precedent in a future case.  Finally, the vote was not a yes/no vote but rather a vote on two different motions, one supporting and one denying the dissent.

There was plenty of comment about the decision, as you can imagine, but the two Scottish bloggers that seem to have the best read of the situation are Stewart Cutler and Chris Hoskins.  Neither disappointed in their analysis and comments on the day.  In addition to a brief post Saturday night with the results of the case Stewart posted on Sunday about being between the two votes and the fact the situation was unsettled.  (He also has a reaction to the motion passed today about the standards, but I’ll get to that another time.)

Chris Hoskins has an extensive post about Saturday and closes with a paragraph worth reading about the evening session to hear the case.  Here is what he wrote:

Saturday evening was interesting. At the start of the evening I wasn’t
that as bothered about the outcome as I was about how the debate was
conducted. I don’t want to talk here about the outcome, plenty of
people are doing that, I want to talk about attitudes (again). I was
worried that people would be hostile and disrespectful to one another
during the debate. I think the way that the moderator handled the night
was fantastic. He made it clear from the start that he would not
tolerate ungracious behaviour and that he would not tolerate people
cheering or jeering. Overall I thought everyone did a great job of
upholding this. I thought that both parties did a great job of keeping
focused on the actual issue, and not allowing themselves to be derailed
from that. I was so grateful and proud for the respect, grace and
dignity that was displayed for all those who were involved and by all
those who spoke during the debate. The attitudes displayed gave me hope
for the future debates that will be had on this issue.

A couple of other blog reactions worth noting.  John Ross at Recycled Missionaries has a long post on the theological decline in the Kirk titled A New Church For Scotland?  There is another long post at Clerical Whispers which looks at the Church of Scotland decision in the context of other churches, particularly the Church of England which is a bit closer to Clerical Whispers’ regular territory of the Irish Roman Catholic church.  Two other bloggers close to the controversy, Rev. Louis Kinsey at Coffee With Louis and Rev. Ian Watson at Kirkmuirhillrev have not posted any extensive or personal comments about the vote yet.  I am sure they will when the time is right and I look forward to their thoughts.

(UPDATE: Much of this post was written before the motion at the Monday session that now asks members of the church not to comment to the press or on-line about these issues.  In light of that new request we will have to see how individuals respond to the proceedings of the Assembly.  As I mention above, I am working on a post about the request for not commenting.)

At this time I have not seen any official statements yet from two of the groups that are part of the discussion, The Fellowship of Confessing Churches and Forward Together. OneKirk did issue a press release expressing their approval of the decision.  I am sure that more will be forthcoming now that the near-term situation is better known with today’s decision to study the issue.

Finally, I need not tell any GA Junkie that for the media the vote on Saturday night was simply about ordination standards and not process.  At least Ekklesia acknowledges the nature of the vote.  While the middle part of the article says “Although those campaigning against Mr Rennie purely because he is gay and in a faithful relationship…” they do have at the very end “The decision the Assembly took this evening was not specifically on the
question of sexuality, but about the rightness of the decision taken by
the local Presbytery in Aberdeen.”

I wish I could say much good about this Associated Press article published on the KXMC web site.  The AP headline is “Church of Scotland votes to appoint gay minister.”  The article begins with this line:  “LONDON (AP) There’s a new Anglican church conflict over
sexuality this time, in Scotland.”  I’m sorry, the Church of Scotland is Presbyterian, not Anglican.  (A similar mix-up is apparent in the news story headlined “Another gay appointment rocks Anglican Church” from On Top Magazine who claims to have gotten the story from The Guardian.  I could not find that error in the Guardian Story so at some point they will probably catch the mistake and correct the text.)

And the Herald had an interesting and extensive article about the debate titled “Landmark Victory or Ecclesiastical Fudge?”  This question of a “fudge” gets back to the polity issue that the case, in and of itself, does not set a precedent but must wait for future cases to evaluate it’s precedent-setting status, or lack there of.  The article is worth reading if for no other reason that it provides more quotes from the debate than I have seen in any other source.

There is certain to be more on this as everyone considers the two different actions taken as a package and snapshot of the Assembly.  In particular, the Herald has an article saying that conservatives think they may yet be able to stop the Rev. Rennie’s appointment.  We will wait for more developments.

General Assembly of the Church of Scotland — Live Blogging The Lochcarron-Skye Overture Debate

Greetings — I am semi-live blogging this session of the
General Assembly (2009) of the Church of Scotland.  I apologize to those with e-mail feeds or a feed
reader since you will probably only get the first section of the post
since I’ll be adding updates throughout the session.  Also, if you are
reading this on a browser live you will also need to refresh the screen
since I don’t have push technology on my blog.  It’s tough being Web
1.99999 in a Web 2.0 world.  Thanks for your patience.

This
blogging is semi-live since I am not there but only following on the webcast.  This session is to deal with the overture from the Presbytery of Lochcarron-Skye proposing specific standards for these cases.  It is being continued from Saturday evening from whence it was postponed because the judicial case ran until almost 11:00 PM.

4:00 PM local time – Right on schedule the Assembly turns to the order of the day, the Overture from Lochcarron-Skye.  There is a proposed motion to reverse the order of the motions in this section.  The Moderator asks for advice and when the Deputy Clerk begins a longer answer the Moderator reminds her “I was looking for advice, not a conversation.”  Based on the advice then given the Moderator says not to reverse the motion.

4:03 – The opening presentation by Rev Dr John L McPake moves the following:

For the sake of the peace and unity of the Church the General Assembly:
1. Appoint a Special Commission composed of nine
persons, representative of the breadth and unity of
the Church, to consult with all Presbyteries and to
prepare a study on Ordination and Induction to the
Ministry of the Church of Scotland in the light of the
issues (a) addressed in the report welcomed by the
General Assembly of 2007: “A challenge to unity:
same-sex relationships as an issue in theology and
human sexuality”, and (b) raised by the case of
Aitken et al v the Presbytery of Aberdeen, and to
report to the General Assembly of 2011;

2. Instruct all Courts, Councils and Committees of the
Church to observe a moratorium on issuing public
comment, whether in publications or otherwise,
and decision-making in relation to contentious
matters of human sexuality, in particular with
respect to Ordination and Induction to the Ministry
of the Church of Scotland, until 31 May 2011; and

3. Urge all members who are subject to the discipline
of the Courts of the Church of Scotland to act in
accordance with the process outlined in 1 and 2.

4:14 – Rev Dr Angus Morrison seconds

4:19 – The Assembly turns to Addendum.  There are three that are being read by the Deputy Clerk so commissioners know what is ahead.  In addition, the Deputy Clerk notes that the three addendum’s are no inconsistent with the main motion or the other addendum’s.

4:24 – Motion to amend so the Special Commission reports back to GA from 2011 to 2010.  Wants to minimize the time this process will take since it could be followed by an act sent to the presbyteries under the Barrier Act.  Another commissioner argues that this has been going on too long as it is.  Moderator asks him to speak to the amendment alone.  He says he will but continues on speaking to the whole motion saying that it should be denied and just adopt the presbytery overture and get a vote over with.  Give the presbyteries a vote not just a consultation.  Moderator stops him to commissioner applause.

4:30 – Other speakers on both sides of dates.  One speaker reasonably arguing for 2011 to take the time for real discussion and “cooling off.”  Commissioner in background can be seen rolling his eyes.

4:40 – Moderator calls for one more speaker on each side.  Speaker for 2010 speaks of media perception and “people in the pews” think the GA made a decision Saturday night on the whole subject not just that case.  Speaker against 2010 is convener of Special Committee on the Third Article — Committee was given two years and he wishes they were given three.

4:48 – Now there is an interesting polity question from the floor: Can this motion be taken outside the Barrier Act because it stops presbyteries from sending overtures to next year’s GA on this subject.  Deputy Clerk responds that this is a narrower focus (single issue) than the Lochcarron-Skye Overture so some reconciliation might be needed.

Motion to change to 2010 rejected overwhelmingly.

New addendum to include kirk sessions as part of the consultation, not just presbyteries.

5:03 – “and kirk sessions” agreed to
Section 1, as amended, is agreed to

Debate on Section 2
Active debate on exactly what the moratorium means:  no sermons?  no public comment at all?  how broadly is the topic of human sexuality to be avoided? what about discussion groups?  What about blogs?

The discussion tries to focus on “press statements” but there is concern about other statements which might be picked up by the press.  In deciding on the current amendment to the amendment the Deputy Clerk reminds commissioners that they are only voting on which version they prefer even if they dislike them both.

5:52 – This discussion continues, and there are still other motions and the overture to deal with this evening.  OK, I now see why the business from Saturday night was continued to today. 

Deputy Clerk weighs in that having made the decision on Saturday night it would not be advisable now to make a decision that would reverse that particular case.  [Editorial comment:  Then why was the specific dealt with before the general standard?]

The vote on Section 2 as amended by standing is ruled against, there is a challenge so they are now voting electronically.
Section 2 as amended is agreed to 314 to 285.  The Moderator apologizes for his previous incorrect call.

Section 3 – Motions for new Section 3’s

Motion to “instruct Presbyteries
to observe a moratorium on ordination and inductions which might appear
to prejudice the Special Commission before it reports.”  Moderator states that it is probably already agreed to based on the vote for Section 2.  Allows seconder to speak about how the Kirk now needs time and how the liberal side, which he is on, needs time to wait and maybe be uncomfortable.

While the Moderator acknowledged that this was already agreed to, he did call for a vote on this as a sign of support.  It was agreed to overwhelmingly.

New motion: For the avoidance of doubt, affirm that the provision of this whole
motion shall in no way be interpreted as offering grounds for
challenging the decision in the referred case Aitken and others against
the decision of the Presbytery of Aberdeen.

6:38 – The motion is approved

New motion to clarify other Assembly committees that may work during the discussion period.  Agreed to.

The Moderator declares the motion agreed to.  A commissioner protests that there was no vote on the whole motion.  The Moderator say that all the sections were agreed to but “for the avoidance of doubt” he calls for the Assembly vote.

6:46 – The Assembly turns to the Overture.  There is a request for the Presbytery to withdraw their overture.  One of the presbytery commissioners asks for time to consult with all the presbytery commissioners.  The Moderator suspends the meeting for 5 minutes.

6:55 – The Presbytery of Lochcarron-Skye agrees to withdraw the overture to a great round of applause.

6:58 – The Assembly adjourns with prayer.

So the Church of Scotland has a Special Commission to work on this for the next two years.  Blessings upon all those on the Commission.

General Assembly of the Church of Scotland — What Is Not On The Table But Waiting In The Wings

The ordination/installation standards debate that has caught all the attention for the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland has distracted a lot of people from the other business of the Kirk.  This is too bad since there is a lot of other important business to be done at the Assembly and I hope that last night’s debate won’t take too much wind out of the rest of the Assembly meeting.

One of the things that has really impressed me about the Church of Scotland is the spirit and seriousness with which they have been addressing the changing place of the church, dare I say mainline church, in modern society.

I think that there are a number of reasons for the Kirk’s success in addressing this, not the least of which is that while the debate on various aspects of human sexuality has been on the table (such as the issue of blessing same-sex unions in 2007 and multiple reports from the Working Group on Human Sexuality) the various issues have not distracted the church the way they have in some other denominations — Presbyterian and otherwise.

But another aspect is the length of time that the church has been seriously dealing with this.  One major milestone was the “Church Without Walls” (CWW) report and group.  The original report was commissioned in 1999 and presented in 2001 and it’s purpose was

To re-examine in depth the primary purposes of the Church

and the shape of the Church of Scotland as we enter into the next
Millennium;


to formulate proposals for a process of continuing reform;


to consult on such matters with other Scottish Churches;


and to report to the General Assembly of 2001.

The recommendations of that report were:

  • Live with a Gospel for a year
  • Review community, worship and leadership
  • Integrate children and/or create new churches
  • Develop paths for the journey of discipleship
  • Plan strategically to develop leadership in congregations in worship, pastoral care and mission
  • Work in teams and partnerships
  • Recover the role of the evangelist
  • Turn the church “upside down”- priority to the local
  • Renew prayer life
  • Encourage sabbatical time from church activities
  • Fund new initiatives through special funding
  • Review overall financial strategy
  • Dare to take risks

Have a look at the summary of the 2001 report (DOC Format)  And this year there was a GA “fringe event” to celebrate the tenth anniversary of the start of the CWW which Liz at “journalling” talks about yesterday and today.

Since 2001 this work has not stopped.  While the 2009 GA voted on Thursday to fold the Church Without Walls Planning Group into the Mission and Discipleship Council the part of the charge “to formulate proposals for a process of continuing reform” has indeed been realized as have many other of the recommendations.

Monitoring of CWW, as well as changes to the Kirk structure originally fell to Assembly Council.  But when that body was restructured the next group charged by the GA to look at the future of the Kirk, and the group that was keeping an eye on the CWW Planning Group, is the Panel on Review and Reform.  It has as part of its charge:

…to listen to the voices of congregations and Presbyteries, to present a vision of what a church in need of continual renewal might become and to offer paths by which congregations, Presbyteries and agencies might travel towards that vision.

Formed in 2004 it has been holding discussion with presbyteries and congregations as part of its work.  In their 2009 Report to the Assembly they discuss the continuing discussion process and also encourage all governing bodies and entities of the Church of Scotland to include the Kirk’s vision statement on their publications.  That vision statement says:

The vision of the Church of Scotland is to be a church which seeks to inspire the people of Scotland and beyond with the Good News of Jesus Christ through enthusiastic, worshiping, witnessing, nurturing and serving communities.

However, the Church of Scotland has recognized that they have a constitutional, and traditional, impediment to reform in the Third Article of the Articles Declaratory:

lll. This Church is in historical
continuity with the Church of Scotland which was reformed
in 1560, whose liberties were ratified in 1592, and for whose
security provision was made in the Treaty of Union of 1707.
The continuity and identity of the Church of Scotland are
not prejudiced by the adoption of these Articles. As a national
Church representative of the Christian Faith of the Scottish
people it acknowledges its distinctive call and duty to bring
the ordinances of religion to the people in every parish of
Scotland through a territorial ministry
. [emphasis added]

The Church of Scotland has a status that almost no other Presbyterian branch has and that is its standing as a National Church.  They are, by the Kirk’s constitution, required to be everywhere in Scotland, and as you can imagine there are costs involved in keeping small churches open.

At the 2006 General Assembly there was a request, and the assembly complied, with establishing a Special Commission on Structure and Change.  The purpose was to evaluate the changes to the central committees and offices of the church and to consider changes to the overall structure, including presbyteries.  In the report presented to the 2008 General Assembly (DOC Format) they discuss the Third Article.  Here is that section, absent the text of the Article which I included above:

13. The Third Article Declaratory

13.1 [Text of the Third Article]

13.2 The Church is accordingly constitutionally committed to providing a ministry, understood
as including a ministry of Word and
Sacrament, in every part of Scotland
without exception. It appears to us that everything that we have been called upon to
consider in the areas of structure,
finance and the allocation of resources,
flows from the imperative contained in the Third Article and, in particular, its third
sentence. It is the requirement to bring
the ordinances of religion to the people
in every parish of Scotland through a territorial ministry that determines that congregations
must be maintained, irrespective of
their ability to support themselves and
therefore that other congregations must take
on the burden of that support. It has implications for how resources are to be allocated.

13.3 We believe that the time is right for the Church to look critically at the Third Article and
decide whether it should be retained,
amended or removed altogether.

13.4 We question whether any valuable principle is dependent upon retaining the Third Article. We
would agree with the view expressed in Church Without Walls that it is a statement that needs to be
examined and questioned at the beginning
of the twenty-first century. It may be
that as a result of such an examination the Church will conclude that the time has come
humbly to lay down the title of
“National Church” and accept a new title
such as “A Church for the Nation”. It may be thought more meaningful for the Church to
“represent to” the Scottish people the
Christian faith rather than to assume
that the Church of Scotland is “representative of the Christian faith of the Scottish
people”. We are one of many Christian
denominations within our country and it
may be that an ecumenical outlook would be more effective in reaching all Scotland with
the Gospel. Major changes would not
necessarily see the Kirk lose its
Presbyterian identity. The Presbyterian Church in other countries has survived without being
“national” in its context. Our
self-identity would change in some ways but
so would the ability to earn greater respect within the nation. The example of Jesus as the humble
servant would seem to provide a helpful
model.

13.5 Whether there is a continuing role for the Third Article is helpfully discussed in a section of
Church without Walls. We have included that
section as Appendix IV to this report.
We commend it to the Church as a
starting point in its consideration of the question.

The 2008 Assembly established the special committee to look at the Third Article and how it impacts the church and it will report back to the 2010 Assembly.

This would be a major change as you can imagine and there is already discussion about what the implications are.  At the National Youth Assembly this past September the youth debated this as part of their discussion of “Future Church.”  In the National Youth Assembly Report to this General Assembly recommendation, or statement, number 10 is:

10. Believes that Territorial Ministries as outlined in Article 3 have a complex impact on the mission of the church; it could be perceived as the focal point in relation to the calling and training of ministers without appropriate attention to the possibility of using lay ministers and particular callings. At the same time territorial ministry offers a precious universality in the support of the country’s people.

And the news media has picked up on a proposal to use video technology to provide ministerial presence in churches that have vacancies, particularly those in remote areas that have difficulty attracting ministers to their charges.  The action item in the Ministries Council report says:

6. Note with concern the pressures being faced by the Church in Presbyteries facing numerous, lengthy vacancies, commend ministers, deacons, Auxiliary ministers, readers and elders who are enabling the Church in these presbyteries to evolve new patterns of life, and welcome in particular the possibilities that video technology, secondment and transition ministry offer.

Like other Presbyterian branches the Church of Scotland has difficulty getting their ministers distributed to all the churches with urban charges being preferable to small isolated churches on the islands in Orkney.

So as the Assembly continues this coming week we will see what other references are made to a church thinking out side the box and looking to the future to see what a 21st century church looks like.  But the Assembly will also be looking ahead to the 2010 Assembly and the report on the Third Article that is now waiting in the wings.

General Assembly of the Church of Scotland — Saturday Night Session

Greetings — I am semi-live blogging this session of the
General Assembly (2009) of the Church of Scotland.  I apologize to those with e-mail feeds or a feed
reader since you will probably only get the first section of the post
since I’ll be adding updates throughout the session.  Also, if you are
reading this on a browser live you will also need to refresh the screen
since I don’t have push technology on my blog.  It’s tough being Web
1.99999 in a Web 2.0 world.  Thanks for your patience.

This blogging is semi-live since I am not there and since only part of the session will be webcast.  This evening session is to deal with two related items of business.  The first is the protest of the call of the Rev. Scott Rennie to Queen’s Cross Church in Aberdeen.  This is the business titled “Dissent and Complaint Against A Decision of the Presbytery of Aberdeen.”  Since this is a judicial case the tradition of British judicial cases will be honored and there will be no webcast.  There will be no official twitter comments either but there may be some from inside the Assembly Hall on the Twitter subject #ga2009.  The second business item is a related overture from the Presbytery of Lochcarron-Skye proposing specific standards for these cases.  Webcasting is announced to resume for that portion.

10:45 PDT (6:45 PM local)-  At this point the business should have been going for about 15 minutes.  An earlier Twitter comment indicated that the gallery was full and that the overflow room was going to be used.

10:55 – There are some Twitters (or is that tweets) from the Assembly Hall including Stewart Cutler.  With Stewart in attendance I know of two bloggers, Stewart and Chris Hoskins at GA.  Watch their blogs after the session for thoughts.  UPDATE: My mistake, those tweets, including Stewart’s, are not coming from the Hall.  Still, Stewart has good connections so read what he has to say when this is over.

11:05 – With nothing else to talk about there is a Twitter discussion going on about the session not being webcast but having observers and the media in attendance in the gallery.  It seems to me the point is tradition, precedence, and the freedom for commissioners to speak freely in their debate as they try to discern the will of God on this matter.  There is  some question about impartiality of commissioners if they have already spoken out, but in the Presbyterian tradition they are now working together to discern the will of God.  In fact, their opinions can come into play in the debate.  They are not asked to be impartial.  They are asked to be open to the Spirit’s leading as they discern the will of God.

11:45 – The Assembly Hall continues to maintain “radio silence” with no updates yet.

12:33 PDT (8:33 local) – Stewart reports on Twitter that there is a break and the “motions are about to be called for.”

12:51 – Then again, another on Tweet implies a decision is not close.
12:53 – Update from Stewart that the parties have presented their cases and now discussion/debate begins

2:35 PM PDT – Twitter has come alive to report that the Assembly has voted to refuse the complaint and dissent regarding the Presbytery of Aberdeen’ approval of the Rev. Scott Rennie’s call to Queen’s Cross Church.

Conclusion:  The General Assembly of the Church of Scotland passed the following motion (from the Update page, but that will disappear at the next business session.)

The following motion is agreed by the Assembly:

a)
refuse the dissent and complaint of Aitken and others and sustain the
decision of the Presbytery of Aberdeen on the basis that the Presbytery
followed the vacancy procedure correctly in Act VIII 2003.

b) affirm for the avoidance of doubt that this decision does not alter the Church’s standards of ministerial conduct.

The business regarding the overture has been remaindered (postponed) until 4:00 PM Monday.

UPDATE:  A couple more thoughts
1)  In good Presbyterian manner the motion that was passed is really about the process not the candidate.  While I have not yet gotten info on the debate it appears that the GA, correctly in my opinion, separated the individual from the issue and at least acted only on the issue.  And the issue here appears to be the process.  The debate on the overture will deal with the issue of standards.

2)  According to an early article in The Herald the vote was 326 to 267.  It will be interesting to see how Monday’s vote compares.

It will be interesting to see both the reaction to this decision and the debate on Monday.  I will follow up on both.

Presbyterians Amid Web 2.0 — The Institution And The Web

As I put the list of resources together earlier today and then followed the progress of the Church of Scotland GA on the webcast and on twitter (#ga2009) it struck me that different Presbyterian branches seem to follow very different paths in putting together their web presence.

While the Church of Scotland has been delivering the GA materials over the web for a number of years, has had their audio updates available on-line, and was an early adopter of webcasting the assembly, the official presence is still very much web 1.0.  There is one web site, and although they have a great extranet area with a lot of publicly available documents, everything is in a fairly typical web format.  And while the Moderator’s “blog” is nice, from a technical standpoint it is still one-dimensional being just a web page without RSS feed or comments.  Got to give them credit for the new twitter feed this year though, but at last fall’s National Youth Assembly the twitter feed was one of the top trending feeds.

The Presbyterian branch that really thought this through is the Presbyterian Church in Canada.  They have “branded” the denomination with PCConnect which contains various blogs, podcast, and PCConnect-TV weekly segment, all with a unified look and feel.

You have to give the PC(USA) credit for trying Web 2.0 out.  There are multiple official blogs from various leaders in the denomination, great on-line video segments about important issues, and Facebook pages.  But while all of this is great I have trouble finding a unified strategy, message, or feel in it.

Having said that it is only fair to say that the Church of Scotland and the PC(USA) are revising their web sites.  It will be interesting to see how much they integrate, unify, or at least brand the content, and introduce new Web 2.0 content.

(I probably should define Web 2.0.  There is not a completely agreed upon definition that I am aware of, but it is a web presence that is interactive in the sense that there are RSS feeds, comment sections, and individual publishing like blogs, twitter or Facebook.  The traditional static, or at least slowly changing, web pages are thought of as Web 1.0.)

But while following the CofS GA today I was reading an older post by Chris Hoskins on his blog “What is Freedom?”  In that post, Church of Scotland and Social Media, he muses about what more the CofS could be doing on-line.  There is a nice comment on the post from CofS leader and techie Stewart Cutler who says:

At present the CofS doesn’t allow Councils to have their own sites. No
‘brands’ allowed. NYA isn’t allowed its own site. COSY isn’t allowed
it’s own site. That limits the ways in which people can interact
because the CofS doesn’t understand that people don’t want to interact
with static, out of date websites. They want to discuss, share, link,
download, upload and all that web2.0 stuff.

So how do you solve the tension between central oversight to maintain uniformity in appearance, presentation and message, versus a more independent approach where lots of stuff gets out there and you need to figure out what is official and what is individual.  The PC Canada does the former well, the PC(USA) does the latter well.  It seems the CofS is trying to figure it out.

General Assembly (2009) of the Church of Scotland Convenes

OK GA Junkies — Game On!

The General Assembly of the Church of Scotland convened a few hours ago and so the GA season has begun.  As I am watching it now there is notable discussion on the report of the Council of Assembly and the charitable trustees.

If you are interested in this Assembly you can find more information on the web:

The Church of Scotland does not have a Book of (Church) Order like many other branches do.  (Or The Code in Ireland.)  You can find the church law in the Acts of Assembly and The Regulations of Assembly.  For an more user friendly document check out An Introduction to Practice and Procedure in the Church of Scotland.

That will give you a start.  Have fun!

Voting Trends For Amendment 08-B — Part 3 – Breakout Sessions

Since I posted the analysis last week eight more presbyteries have voted with the unofficial tally at 77-94.  There are only two more presbyteries left to vote.  This past week there were two more presbyteries that switched from “no” to “yes” bringing the total of presbyteries to switch in that direction to 33.

In the first post I looked at the total votes without regard to presbytery groupings.  In the second part I discussed the distribution of voting patterns for the presbyteries.  In this post I want to focus on the groupings of presbyteries and a couple of interesting features that appear.

From the usual sources 154 of the 171 presbyteries that have voted have numbers reported for both the 01-A voting and the 08-B voting. 

In the following frequency distribution plots the vertical and horizontal axes are the same in all the plots (except the All Presbyteries/Total vote plot has an extended vertical axis) and the horizontal axes are aligned with a reference line through the 1.0 (no change) point.  Data are binned and counted on intervals of 0.05 with the number on the horizontal axis the upper inclusive limit of the bin.

To look at the details the presbyteries have been grouped by those that voted “Yes” on 08-B and those that voted “No” on 08-B.  There are also subgroups of each of these for the presbyteries that switched their votes from the previous round of voting.  Since the “Yes” to “No” subgroup has only two presbyteries those are briefly discussed but not plotted.

Total Presbytery Votes

First the note that the top chart has a vertical axis from 0-30 while the upper limit on all of the other vertical axes is 20.

Looking at these distributions it can be seen that the changes in the total number of votes cast was very similar whether you are looking at the total population or the split-out groups.  Total votes are slightly higher in “Yes” presbyteries but it is not much.  All have averages and medians in the 0.86 – 0.90 range and while the standard deviations show a bit more variation ranging from 0.15 to 0.24, the difference is not extreme.

Presbytery “Yes” Votes

Here is where the division into groups and subgroups shows the most interesting results.  Just splitting the population into “yes” and “no” presbyteries shows no significant changes in the population.  The total, “yes” group and “no” group all have averages a bit above 1.00, medians very close to 1.00, and standard deviations in the 0.35 – 0.47 range.  It is tough to make a case that much is different between the “yes” and “no” presbyteries.

But if we split out the “yes” presbyteries that previously voted “no” it is clear that these presbyteries had a clear increase in the number of “yes” votes.  Of the 29 presbyteries, 7 had no change or a decrease and the other 22 had in increase in the “yes” vote.  I’ll return to this group at the end and take a detailed look at the behavior.

Presbytery “No” Votes

While the patterns in the “Yes” vote were not seen and the differences in the Total was slight, there is a bit more difference to be seen in the break out of the “No” vote.  All the presbyteries together had an average no-vote ratio of 0.76 while the average in presbyteries that voted “No” on 08-B was 0.83 and the average for “Yes” presbyteries was 0.68.  The numbers for the presbyteries that switched were statistically close to those for all the “Yes” presbyteries.

So presbyteries that voted “No” on 08-B generally had a lower decline in “No” votes, presbyteries that voted “Yes” had a higher decline, and no appreciable difference from that was seen for the subgroup that switched from “No” to “Yes.”  In other words, as a group a “No” to “Yes” switch was characterized by a statistically greater increase in “Yes” votes with a “No” vote decrease characteristic of the other “Yes” vote presbyteries.  This in contrast to a possible switch due to no increase in “Yes” votes but a statistically greater decrease in “No” votes.

Details of the “No” to “Yes” Switch
Taking a look at the 29 presbyteries that switched votes, two (6.9%) appear to be pure swing with almost equal numbers of lost “no” votes and gained “yes” votes.  (In this discussion “almost equal numbers” means a difference of usually zero or one, but no more than two votes.)  Six (20.7%) show little to no change in the number of “yes” votes and only a decrease in “no” votes, and five (17.2%) show a notable decrease in both “yes” and “no” votes with a larger “no” vote decrease.  These 11 (37.9%) appear to be more related to differential losses.  One (3.4%) shows a significant increase in both “yes” and “no” with a more pronounced increase in “yes,” but looking at previous votes 01-A has a significantly lower vote total and this is probably a special circumstance for 01-A.  Half the presbyteries, 15, show a more complex behavior with a gain in “yes” votes and decrease in “no” votes.  Five of those have a “yes” gain greater than the “no” loss and ten of those had a larger “no” loss than “yes” gain.  These, plus the two pure swing, suggest that 17 (58.6% of the switches and 11.0% of the total) presbyteries changed their vote from “no” to “yes” at least in part by a significant switch of voters between those positions.

Details of the “Yes” to “No” Switch
With only two presbyteries making the switch in this direction it is impossible to make generalizations, especially since their patterns of change are totally different.  In the case of San Francisco Presbytery the vote went from 216-186 on 01-A to 167-177 on 08-B.  There was a significant preferential decrease in the number of “Yes” votes attributed variously to complacency or attendance at conferences.  The case with Sierra Blanca is exactly opposite with the number of both “Yes” and “No” votes increasing, but the “No” vote increasing dramatically and preferentially.  On 01-A Sierra Blanca voted 18-17 while on 08-B they voted 23-30.  Again, special cases, but when you look at the details of many of the presbytery votes you begin to think that there is a back story to the voting.

Changes Relative to Strength of Voting
I will do a lot more with multi-variant statistics later, but this one jumped out at me and I thought it appropriate to include here.  I have previously commented that looking for correlations between various factors has yielded little, but here is a case where something of interest does appear.


I hope that this graph is not too confusing.  On the x-axis I have the “yes” vote on 08-B in percent.  All of the blue squares represent presbyteries that voted yes and so are above the 50% line, and all the red squares are presbyteries that voted no and so are on or below the 50% line.  On the top plot I show the change in the number voting in opposition from one vote to the n
ext as a ratio of 08-B votes to 01-A votes.  So on the left is the change in the number of “Yes” votes in presbyteries voting “No.”  And on the right are the change in the number of “No” votes in presbyteries voting “Yes.”  For the subgroup of presbyteries that switched from “No” to “Yes” the plot did not differ significantly so I did not include that data as a separate plot.

In the upper plot the trend for “No” votes to decline in presbyteries voting in the affirmative is strong with an R-squared=0.32 for the correlation.  The trend for the other half is not as strong and while visually suggestive the higher scatter results in an R-squared=0.02.  But based on the grouping of points in the down-to-the-left trend an argument could be made for some presbyteries with similar behavior, but a closer look at the outlying points for special cases would be necessary to really verify that.  It should be recognized that changes in small numbers of votes as is found near the ends of the X axis are amplified more than similar changes near the middle of the axis.

In the lower plot the change in concurring votes is plotted and for both the trend is statistically indistinguishable from flat.  In the “No” votes in “No” presbyteries there is a slight, but statistically insignificant, upward trend to the lower percentage votes that if true, and combined with the decreasing “Yes” vote in the upper plot, would actually suggest a swing from “Yes” to “No” in the presbyteries with the strongest “No” votes.  It is clear, both visually and statistically, that no such conclusion is even hinted at in the “Yes” presbyteries.  So there is a trend seen in “Yes” voting presbyteries, and suggested in “No” voting presbyteries, for the greater the strength of vote is the fewer opponents showed up, or were still around, for the vote on 08-B.

Well, enough of this for now.
One of the things I keep getting asked about all of this is something like “Wasn’t the vote on 01-A ‘different.'” There have been several ways that people have suggested the last vote was different but the most often mentioned one is that presbyteries voted “No” because the PUP Task Force was beginning work and they wanted to let that process play out.

Well, in multiple respects the voting on 01-A was different and in my next installment in this series I will look at that quantitatively and show, well, that every presbytery is different.  Actually, I’ll show that there are several different sets of behaviors seen for 01-A voting of which a shift to vote “No” is just one of them.  Sometimes that “No” shift came with no change in total vote, a true swing.  And sometimes that shift in percentages came with a significant increase in the total number of commissioners voting, a behavior that looks like a “get out the vote” campaign for those favoring the retention of the “fidelity and chastity” requirement.  My point right now is that an “undoing” of either of these would support some of the behavior seen in the data for 08-B voting.  So next time I’ll lay out those numbers.

 

General Assembly of the Church of Scotland This Week — The Media Build Up Continues

The General Assembly of the Church of Scotland convenes in Edinburgh this Thursday.  I’ll post once more before the Moderator calls the commissioners to order so that I can talk about something else.

But if you only read the mainstream media on this side of the world you would think that the Assembly is about one thing, and only one thing — The suitability of the lifestyle of a partnered gay man for service as the pastor at a church in Aberdeen.

I would like to think that the Assembly will deal with this in its usual decently and in order fashion.  In fact, I expect that it will having followed these debates for a while.  What I don’t know about will be what will happen after that.

The other problem that I have is that I am following this from 8261.97 km away.  (That would be 5133.75 mi for those of us who only know the metric system as 2-liter bottles.)  I have been struck in the last week by the prolific, and frankly hyperbolic, coverage by the media.  They seem to be almost exclusively focusing on the conflict and “impending doom” that this controversy in the Church of Scotland will cause.  Yes, there is coverage of other issues, but usually in an “oh, by the way” manner.

The hot topic of the week was the sermon preached on the last Lord’s Day by the Rev. Ian Watson.  The title was “Jude: Fighting Truth Decay #3” and it is available on the Rev. Watson’s blog.  (And I must trust that what is posted on the blog is what was preached.)  From that the media got the following headlines

Anti-gay ‘Nazi’ slur causes Church of Scotland outrage – Ekklesia
Anti-gay Minister the Rev Ian Watson in ‘Nazi battle’ outrage – Times Online
Minister compares fight against homosexual clergy to resistance of Nazis – The Telegraph

Having read these articles and the sermon they are based on there is clearly a reference and implicit analogy to the run-up to the Second World War that would strike a nerve in many people.  Related to that, here is exactly what the Rev. Watson posted on his blog.  The Introduction:

There are very few people who enjoy conflict.  The vast majority of
decent people will do almost anything to avoid situations of
confrontation.  So, the soup may be cold, the meat tough and the
pudding inedible, but when the waiter asks us if we are enjoying our
meal we’ll smile and nod.  We don’t want to complain, we don’t want to
make a fuss.  We’ll even pay for the privilege. 

This is how bullies succeed.  They realize that no matter how
unhappy we are with their behaviour we’re not going to stand up to
them, because the last thing we want is a shouting match. 

That was the gamble Hitler took when he marched German troops into
the Rhineland in March 1936 in breach of a condition forced on Germany
after World War 1.  It was a huge gamble.  If the French army,
stationed on the other side of the border, had marched against him, the
Germans would have had to retreat and there’s no doubt Hitler’s regime
would have collapsed.  But he guessed correctly that the French had no
stomach for a fight.  If only they had, then the tragedy of a second
World War might have been avoided.

And from the Conclusion

Let me assure you, neither I nor like-minded minsters enjoy
conflict.  We long to be getting on with the work of the gospel in our
parishes.  It’s a distraction we could do without.

But have we learned nothing from history?  Remember Hitler and the
re-taking of the Rhineland.  He got away with it.  No one stopped him. 
So next it was Austria, then Czechoslovakia, and then Poland and only
then world war.

I can’t help asking myself: if we say nothing, do nothing at this
time, what next?  What scriptural truth is next for shaving?  The
uniqueness of Christ as our only Saviour?  The nature of God as Holy
Trinity?  

What moral standards will we depart from?  Can we expected unmarried
couples in our manses?  A line has to be drawn in the sand, or the
whole edifice will come tumbling down (now there’s a mixed metaphor for
you!)

In between he makes no further reference to these events but talks about various conflicts in church history and his scripture passage, Jude 3-4, particularly v. 3 where it says

Beloved, while eagerly preparing to write to you about the salvation we
share, I find it necessary to write and appeal to you to contend for
the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints.

While many people found Mr. Watson’s sermon illustration disturbing, the press reports that I have read focused on the Germany analogy and did not properly convey, in my opinion, the full sense of the sermon.  In addition the media states that many religious and political leaders have expressed disapproval, but are weak backing that up with quotes.  The Telegraph article does give two reactions:

Rev Peter Macdonald, the leader elect of the Iona Community and
minister of St George’s West, Edinburgh, told The Times he found the
sermon disturbing while Rev Lindsay Biddle, chaplain of Affirmation
Scotland, a pro-homosexual group, said: “If you don’t like homosexuals,
then get on with it – but don’t use the Bible to justify opinions.”

And a defense from Rev. Watson

Rev Watson defended his sermon: “There is no doubt that there is a
conflict,” he said. “I was trying to explain why I am engaged in this.
People say to me, ‘This is not a hill to die on’, but I think it is a
fight worth fighting. “Evangelicals seek to defend the historic and
orthodox Christian faith. If we don’t what are we? I am a man of
convictions.”

So while I can see Rev. Watson’s perspective and why some are offended and concerned by the comments, I still find the media reports as superficial and too focused on the most controversial aspects.  (And I would note that I have searched Rev. Watson’s posted text a couple of times and he does not actually use the term “Nazi” himself, instead referring to “Hitler” and “Germany.”  I don’t know if the media uses the term for brevity or impact?)

The other thread that is going around related to this story, and again promoted more by the media than in direct statements that I am reading, is the prospect of schism.  In the Telegraph article I have already quoted from the second paragraph opens with

His [The Rev. Watson’s] comments will widen divisions within the Kirk over the appointment of an openly gay minister to a parish church last year.

As far as I can tell this article is firmly in the News section, not the opinion, so I would fault the writer, Alastair Jamieson, for the inclusion of the “will widen” without a direct attribution.  Yes, in the next paragraph he writes

Rev Kenneth MacKenzie, the minister at Crathie Kirk, near Balmoral,
which is attended by the Queen, has warned a schism would occur if his
appointment was confirmed.

But the way the article is constructed it appears Mr. Jamieson is using the Rev. MacKenzie’s statement to support his own thesis rather than report on other people’s concerns about divisions.  And in many of these articles quotes from those who do not think there will be division are missing.

I should point out some good coverage of the issue.  Two good examples come from the BBC.  There is one story that tones down the headline a bit with “Church Split Warning Over Gay Row.”  It also contains a 15 minute video that has a very good conversation between two CofS ministers, the Rev. Randall and the Rev. Gilchrist, discussing the issue and theological viewpoints.  And they make the very important point that this controversy is about standards for ordained office, something that you could not tell from two of the three headlines I listed above.  (Style points to the Telegraph for bringing that out in the headline.)  The second article is on William Crawley’s religion blog Will & Testament.  I enjoy William’s writing because it is usually balanced, well informed and relevant.  This article is no exception.

At a news conference earlier this week the Moderator Designate, the Rev. Bill Hewitt, refused to answer questions about the issue, just saying it was his job to oversee the Assembly debate.

Finally, in another post William Crawley notes that religious leaders in Northern Ireland have added their names to the petition from The Fellowship of Confessing Churches that urges the restriction on those called to the pastorate.  He points out that the list of signatories includes several former moderators of the Presbyterian Church in Ireland.

I expect not to address this issue again before it comes to the floor of Assembly at the end of this week.  Debate on the filed protest of Aberdeen Presbytery’s actions is docketed for Saturday evening.  I expect to be live blogging it.  I do want to finish one more post before the Assembly begins, especially since there is another important matter that won’t come to the floor until next year, but will have an influence on several other items of business.   (Update:  Thanks to Iain I have been informed that there are not plans to webcast the Saturday evening debate.  I guess I’ll have to depend on the reports after the debate.)