Monthly Archives: October 2012

Church Of Scotland Sexuality Discussion And Resulting Departure Actions


Over the last few weeks and months there have been some significant developments regarding ministers and churches that are concerned with the direction the Kirk is headed.

Briefly, the background to the recent actions is in the on-going discernment by the Church of Scotland through the General Assembly to determine the church’s stand on same-gender relationships. The current stream can be traced back to January of 2009 when Queens Cross Church in Aberdeen extended a call to the Rev. Scott Rennie who was in a same-gender relationship. This call was sustained by the presbytery and later that Spring the dissent and complaint concerning the presbytery decision was refused by the General Assembly. The Kirk has done what in my opinion is a wise thing and that is to deal with the matters of same-gender relationships as a whole including consideration of ordination standards and civil unions and marriages. The 2009 General Assembly, after refusing the dissent and complaint, considered some additional overtures and ended up setting up a Special Commission to consult with the church more widely concerning these matters. The Special Commission brought to the 2011 GA a set of recommendations which included a choice of which direction to head concerning this matter. By a vote of 351 to 294 the General Assembly chose to “Resolve
to consider further the lifting of the moratorium on the acceptance for
training and ordination of persons in a same-sex relationship, and to
that end instruct the Theological Commission to prepare a report for the
General Assembly of 2013…” So that is where we are, waiting for next year’s GA to see how the report of the Theological Commission is acted upon. From there, any polity changes based on the Theological Commission report would take another year.

Except that not everyone is waiting. With a trajectory chosen some members of the Church of Scotland are concerned with what they see as a non-biblical direction and are considering their options.

Most recently, the Rev. Paul Gibson has moved from the Church of Scotland to the Free Church of Scotland, being accepted by the Commission of Assembly on 4 October. In the Free Church news article he is quoted as saying:

I’m under no false illusions that somewhere out there is the perfect denomination or Church.

However, in these days of political correctness, pluralism and great
moral confusion, I believe that what is so desperately needed is not
further confusion and liberal ambiguity from the Church, but instead a
consistent appeal to the unchanging truths of God’s word, the Bible.

The Church should, by God’s grace, do all in its power to further,
rather than hinder, the good news of Jesus Christ in Scotland.

Something about this transfer caught the attention of the mainstream media and Rev. Gibson did an interview with The Scotsman which was picked up by several other news outlets. Something that caught my attention was the nuance that each headline writer gave. In The Scotsman it is said that he “defects” to the Free Church. The Christian Post says he was “forced out,” and at least they use that term again in the body of the article. And in the Christian Institute article the headline says he “quits Kirk.”

The other news is related to the congregation of St.George’s Tron, a landmark church in the centre of Glasgow. (Hey, if your URL is thetron.org you have something going for you. )

Back in June, after a year of prayer and discernment, the church decided to leave the Church of Scotland because of their disagreement with the GA’s chosen trajectory. This past Tuesday the Presbytery of Glasgow received a report from a special committee and, based on documents online, approved the report’s recommendations to retain the property — the buildings as well as the contents, bank accounts and church records. The presbytery decision is fresh so the situation is still developing but this disagreement could certainly head to the courts.  In the statement from last Sunday the Rev. Dr. William Philip addresses this:

Now, we mustn’t pre-judge the issue, Presbytery on Tuesday night can
reject this report, but I have to tell you that I think that seems
extremely unlikely. And so, barring an intervention of God, that means
that we must be prepared for the fact that we must soon be forced out of
this building where we meet and where we so delight to share the gospel
of the Lord Jesus Christ. It may also be that the family and I are
forced to leave the manse and that we as a Church may lose all of our
other assets as well. (These things are more complicated, we may have a
better legal defence there, although it does seem that the Scottish
charity regulator has tended to side with the Church of Scotland view.
But as I say, these things are complex.)

Nevertheless, the deliverance being urged upon Presbytery on Tuesday
night includes taking further legal action without delay to dispossess
us of these things. As you know, there is already legal action underway
personally against myself and our Session Clerk and our treasurer.

[Note: the last action he is referring to is most likely the already initiated legal action to recover the church records.]

There are articles about the decision from The Scotsman and the Herald Scotland.

Let me make a few comments on church polity and legal precedents in this matter.

The Church of Scotland does not have a “trust clause” as American Presbyterians are familiar with. As I understand the property situation in the Kirk, title to church property in Scotland is, with minor exceptions, held by the General Trustees at a national level. This clearly presents a major legal hurdle for a congregation to overcome to retain their buildings and as noted in the statement above the charity regulator tends to side with the Church of Scotland.

Now, I have been advised that Scottish laws, and property laws in particular, have some unique aspects to them so I don’t want to go too far out on a limb here, but from the reading I have been doing the current situation does appear to present an up-hill battle for the congregation.

There is one recent church property decision that may present a precedent that supports the denomination and that is the July 2009 decision in the case of  Smith and other v Morrison and others. In this case the Free Church of Scotland successfully sued the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing) claiming that when the two groups split in 2000 the Free Church (Continuing) congregations were not entitled to take the property with them.

There is an interesting nuance here because it appears that under Scottish law a church may keep property if they separate after, and because, the denomination has “departed from fundamental principles.” The Free Church decision talks extensively about fundamental principles and how they are not an issue in that case. One such passage says

[63] The national church cases were of limited importance to
the essential issues in the present case. Each dealt with the issue of
fundamental principles in a different context. The pursuers here did not aver
departure by the defenders from fundamental principles
.

The implication throughout is that if fundamental principles were at stake the decision might have been different. Since this case does involve doctrine we will have to see if that does qualify as a fundamental principle and makes a difference in any legal proceedings.

[A couple of interesting points for those familiar with current happenings in American cases. The first is that American courts stay clear of doctrinal issues in property cases under the “neutral principles” concept and can not judge whether one side or the other has departed from fundamental principles of doctrine. The second is that for PC(USA) folks this idea of fundamental principles probably carries echos of the ongoing discussion about essential tenets and if this question goes forward it will be interesting to see the arguments made about where these issues are, or are not, fundamental principles of doctrine.]

It is interesting to note that the Free Church (Continuing) is now trying to cast their continuing property dispute with the Free Church as a fundamental principles case. Now that the Free Church has relaxed their position on exclusive unaccompanied hymn singing the Free Church (Continuing) is claiming that they have made a change regarding their fundamental principles. (Opinion: I personally don’t think that will go very far.)

If you want more on the FC/FCC property dispute you can find it with Martin Frost and Scottish Christian. There is also the statement by the Free Church regarding the decision on the Sleat and Strath Free Church blog. These actions do continue and about a year ago the decision was upheld on appeal. In the decision regarding the appeal one of the judges, Lord Drummond Young, wrote

In this respect, the exhortation to long suffering forbearance and unity
of the spirit within a congregation may be as relevant to Broadford and
other communities in Scotland in the 21st Century as it was to Ephesus
in the First Century.

And so just as there is the prospect of more Free Church cases to reclaim property there is also the prospect of not just St. George’s Tron but other Church of Scotland congregations getting involved in legal actions if they decide to leave the denomination.

As with so many things Presbyterian there is a long way to go here. Stay tuned…

UPDATE: 15 October – Herald Scotland brings the report that legal proceedings against St. George’s Tron have been initiated.

UPDATE: 21 October – The Church of Scotland has issued a statement about the St. George’s Tron situation. In the statement it is pointed out that the congregation has unpaid contributions to the Presbytery of Glasgow and has a loan of almost £1M from the General Trustees. (H/T Peter Nimmo)

Changing Attitudes In The PC(USA) – Some Thoughts On Interpretation

It has been a very interesting couple of days with the release of some new data sets from the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) Research Services office. I don’t think I had seen the 2011 Comparative Statistics on the web site before today and in the last couple of days a new Presbyterian Panel report was issued on Current Issues in Church and Society. (For the record the summary report was issued and I am interested to see the full report when it is made available.)

There are a number of interesting items in that summary report but the one that got a lot of play yesterday was the attitude of members towards same-sex marriage. This was highlighted by a Christian Post article about one of the findings headlined “Poll: PCUSA Members Increasingly Favoring Same-Sex Marriage.” This article has been tweeted about a number of times in the last day or two.

Here are the details of the findings from the second paragraph of the article:

In research conducted by Presbyterian Research Services and published in
October, the number of PC(USA) members and pastors supporting the denomination
redefining marriage grew. In 2005, 23 percent of PC(USA) members
supported same-sex marriage; in 2012, the number had increased to 34
percent. Among pastors, support for same-sex marriage in 2005 was at 35
percent; in 2012, it is at 49 percent.

The article then presents two interpretations.

From the author of the original research article, Mr. Jack Marcum, coordinator of Research Services the news article has the quote:

This
result indicates a broad-based shift in opinions across the church in
only a few years. Longer term, the effect of generational change will be
felt: 75 percent of young adult advisory delegates at the General
Assembly supported the redefinition of marriage.

The article also quotes Dr. Paul E. Detterman, executive director for Presbyterians for Renewal, with a different perspective:

There
is a substantial number of conservative individuals and congregations …
who have disengaged from these debates within the PC(USA) or who are
now in the process of departure.

This survey is
probably quite accurate in reflecting the views of people responding in
the PC(USA) in 2005 and people responding in the PC(USA) in 2012. As
different from the U.S. demographic analysis, however, these are not
people who have changed their views – these are simply not the same
people.

Without a longer baseline on the study it is difficult to distinguish between these two interpretations since, along the lines of what Dr. Detterman points out, the study group for the Presbyterian Panel is refreshed every three years. But in thinking about this I figured it was possible to put some constraints on these possibilities with a few end-member models. While these do not definitively answer the question I think they point to the interpretation that the answer is somewhere in between these two viewpoints. Probably no surprise there.

OK, now things are going to get geeky – you have been warned.

And what follows comes with this caveat: As you will see these are back of the envelope calculations. I could do more detailed modeling, and someday I might, but for now I think these ballpark models give good enough results to constrain the viewpoints further. And being back of the envelope calculations I am going to assert things in a couple of places that I am not going to chase down the citations for. Also, the survey divides between members, ruling elders, teaching elders in parish ministry and teaching elders in specialized ministry. Since this deals with membership changes I am only going to consider the members.

So here are the data: The statement is “same-sex couples should be allowed to marry.” In the current survey 51% of members answered disagree or strongly disagree. There were 34% of members who said agree or strongly agree and 15% who were neutral or not sure. This compares with the 2005 report where 61% answered disagree of strongly disagree, 17% were neutral or not sure and 23% answered agree or strongly agree. And from here on I will use “agree” to mean agree or strongly agree, “neutral” to mean both neutral and not sure and “disagree” to mean the combined disagree and strongly disagree. (And note that in the summary report they are not further broken down either.)

Since these are membership models we need to state that in 2005 the PC(USA) membership was 2,313,662 and in 2011 it was 1,952,287.

Model 1: The simplist model is just to say that all those that left the PC(USA) in this time period were those that disagreed with the statement. This would mean that if we extrapolate the sample population to the total membership 532,142 members agreed with the statement, 393,323 were neutral and 1,179,167 disagreed. Since 2005 the PC(USA) has lost 361,375 members so if all of those come out of the disagree population that leaves 818,593 members in that group.  That means that out of the new total population the group that agrees is now 27%.

On a number of levels this model is a bit of a stretch, not the least of which is the fact that losses include three categories – transfers, deaths and other – and it is tough to make an argument that those that have gone on to the Church Triumphant all disagreed with that statement. (I personally know several that strongly agreed.) But what this model does do with this particular stretch is to demonstrate that just with departures attaining the 34% is not likely.

Model 2: Let’s try something similar but introduce another factor. This end-member says that every individual that leaves (even those that die) disagrees with the statement and every individual that joins is in favor. We can add up those that joined from the Comparative Statistics and find that is 605,063 members. For the record 966,438 left in that same time period. That means that our group that agrees has grown to 1,137,205 or 58% of the denomination.

So if you want to argue that the shift in the PC(USA) is due to change in people and not attitudes this is clearly your starting point for a more refined model.  The model is underdetermined so you can move a lot of variables around to figure out ways to make the replacement population grow to 34% agree.

But one observation regarding this – the PC(USA) does not have well defined patterns of church growth and decline along the lines of theological viewpoint. (Something else I am working on but that is for another day.) If this replacement model is workable then the replacement is happening across large numbers of churches in the denomination and not in concentrated pockets of congregations.

On a side note, one of the things that always amazes me when I crunch these numbers is seeing that the denominational turnover is about 100,000 a year and so we become a new church every 20 years. Whether this is truly enough replacement with individuals with differing opinions from those they replace is an open question.

Model 3: OK, let’s look at this a little differently and, in my mind, maybe a bit more realistically.  I have a model I have used elsewhere that breaks the PC(USA)’s 3-ish percent decline into a “mainline” component of about 1.5% and a “controversy” component of about 1.5%. So what if the mainline component is across the board and the controversy component is only for those that disagree?

Well, it turns out that it only results in a 2% increase in the number that agree. So this does not get us very far by itself and replacement and changing individual opinions are still necessary.

Discussion: Since these are only back of the envelope calculations I am not going to draw hard conclusions from these numbers.  But I will say that as I look at these models the answer is probably somewhere in between. Sure, you can find a combination of variables that will give you the results of the survey based on turnover alone, and maybe that is Dr. Detterman’s point. I can’t disprove it at the moment but as I look at the model it would seem to require not just some significant turnover in the PC(USA) but significant turnover with one fairly homogeneous group being replaced by another.

On the other hand I think Dr. Detterman is correct that departure of those that disagree needs to be considered in the conclusion. My point is that this is a complex system and that both the departures from the denomination and the change in attitudes of those in the denomination are probably involved.  If I had to guess, and this is purely a guess, I would think it would be in roughly equal parts.

(And it is worth noting that I may be placing too much emphasis on the two different views and maybe the news article just quoted them in a way that makes their explanations look mutually exclusive.)

So maybe I’ll add some more variables into Model 2 and see how realistic the numbers are to make the current number of 34%.

In case you are still with me I thought I would throw in a couple more interesting tidbits from the Panel report.

  • When asked if they were familiar with various groups and initiatives in the PC(USA) 17% said they were familiar or very familiar with the Fellowship of Presbyterians, 7% said the same for ECO, 3% for 1001 New Worshiping Communities and 1% for NEXT church.
  • Regarding the 1001 New Worshiping communities 32% of members and 40% of pastors said it was a realistic or very realistic goal. (And those are the numbers in the narrative because the quantities shown in Figure 2 look different to me.)
  • For members, 17% recall any discussion in the past year about their congregation leaving the PC(USA).
  • There is a big difference between members and pastors regarding whether a split is inevitable – only 20% of members think it is while 53% of pastors do.

Well, hopefully that gives you something to think about. I hope to revisit a couple of those with more data.

General Assembly 2012 of the Presbyterian Church of Aotearoa New Zealand

Earlier today (yesterday in their part of the globe) the final General Assembly that I know of for this year convened. General Assembly 2012 of the Presbyterian Church of Aotearoa New Zealand is meeting October 4-7 at the Rotorua Boys High School in Rotorua towards the middle of the North Island. (And in the middle of a volcanic caldera.)

The incoming Moderator, the Rev. Ray Coster, has chosen for the theme of GA12 “Reviving the Flame.” As is traditional, he has put together a four-part Bible study based on this theme for the whole church to participate in. In choosing this theme he writes:

I love the word revive. It speaks to me about God never giving up on God’s people. In some ways I feel as though our Presbyterian Church has been in a wilderness for many years. We are all now aware of our Church’s downward statistics. We have moved from a denomination of about 130,000 people at weekly worship in the early 1960s to around 30,000 today. It could be very easy to become despondent about this, give up and feel like we are failing. But the desert or wilderness is a place of meeting and restoration. That’s where revival, refreshment and restoration begin.

It appears that the White Book with a docket and reports is not available online but supplemental reports are posted. (Have to admit that I am a little uncertain here because the web site says they are “not for distribution and publication outside of our Church.”) However, for those interested in the multi-ethnic nature of the church in general the PCANZ is an interesting branch to pay attention to because they probably have the best integration of indigenous peoples into the structure and polity of the denomination. In particular, Discussion Paper 2: The self-understanding of a multi-ethnic Church looks interesting (I have only had a chance to briefly review it) and it contains comparisons to the Uniting Church of Australia, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and the United Reformed Church.

During the Assembly the commissioners will be hearing from the Rev. Tim Keel of Jacob’s Well church in Kansas City. The information says that he will be speaking on “how we understand and embody the Gospel in our communities.”

That information, and more general background, can be found in the media pack.

If you are interested in following along relevant information and documents are being posted each day on pages linked to the General Assembly 2012 page. The only page there at the moment is for Thursday and it contains the order of worship for the opening worship service and the Moderator’s sermon, among other things. (Note: Many of the documents are in Word format so I am not directly linking to them but giving you the page with the link.)

The General Assembly 2012 page also has a widget where you can sign up for email updates from the Assembly. Finally, their is the Facebook Page but I have not seen anything fresh posted there yet.

There does not appear to be any live streaming but a small Twitter stream is present on the hashtag #GA2012. So far Margaret Mayman ( @mmayman ) and Jason Goroncy ( @jasongoroncy ) look to be the tweeps to follow. As always, I will update as appropriate.

So our prayers and best wishes for the deliberations and discernment of the commissioners at General Assembly 2012. May you have a great Assembly.