{"id":170,"date":"2012-07-06T21:28:53","date_gmt":"2012-07-07T04:28:53","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/gajunkie.info\/blog\/?p=170"},"modified":"2012-07-06T21:28:53","modified_gmt":"2012-07-07T04:28:53","slug":"220th-general-assembly-of-the-pcusa-friday-afternoon","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blog.gajunkie.com\/?p=170","title":{"rendered":"220th General Assembly of the PC(USA) — Friday Afternoon"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\n\n
<\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font><\/font>
\n \"\"\n<\/td>\n		\nLive blogging the Friday afternoon session…
\nIf you are following along live you will want to hit refresh periodically to reload the post. (And please excuse the typos as my fingers fly – even more so with the fatigue at the end of the week.)<\/p>\n

I think I have some control on the technical difficulties with my connection. It is better but not perfect. I will do the best I can. Others have agreed that the wifi in the room is so saturated and they are also having problems staying connected.<\/p>\n

I am not sure why I keep linking to the proposed docket<\/a> for the rest of the Assembly. At this point it is pretty much toast, but it does give a hint of the order in which we will be taking things.  But at the end of the Morning session we had completed the work docketed through yesterday afternoon. There are ten committees left to report in two more sessions today.<\/p>\n

Having only gotten through Middle East this morning the plan for the afternoon is to begin with Civil Union and Marriage (Committee 13) and then go back and start taking the rest in order. We will see how far we get but that puts Mission Coordination (Committee 10) on deck followed in the line-up by Review of Biennial Assemblies (Committee 4) and Immigration Issues (12). \n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n

\nThe house band gives us some music to get seated by<\/p>\n

Brought to order by Moderator Presa and led through the prayer cycle led by two YAADs.<\/p>\n

1001 Worshiping communities video<\/p>\n

Bills and Overtures presented by Tom “Gnome” Harmon who compliments the parliamentarians on their neckwear<\/p>\n

OK, here is the proposed lineup
\nCivil Union and Marriage
\nFoundation video
\nChurch Growth and PILP
\nChurch Orders
\nImmigration
\nMission Coordination
\nPeacemaking and Intermational Issues
\nHealth Issues
\nAuthoritative Interpretation
\nReview of Biennial Assemblies
\n[Like I said, the original list is toast]
\nApproved without objection<\/p>\n

The Vice-Moderator of Bills and Overtures also notes that the meeting will run late this evening but that he and the Moderator of Bills and Overtures have had a child born in the last year and so have been preparing for this.<\/p>\n

Committee on Civil Union and Marriage Issues – Committee 13<\/a>
\nCommittee opens business with prayer
\nOur report contains no consent agenda items
\nCommittee Moderator comments
\n     Committee “sought to hold a broken church together”
\n     The most heated debate in Committee was not about marriage but about parliamentary procedure
\n     Committee was divided but not divisive
\n     Brings two recommendations – Call for study and a recommendation to amend the Directory for Worship
\n     Recommendations are intended to be held together<\/p>\n

Item 13-04<\/a> Amend the Directory for Worship
\nWant this item to prompt the church to a deep conversation
\nTwo minority reports
\nMinority Report #1 To answer all committee actions with the statement
\n   Wants to achieve “balance” and keep it from being “fracture”
\n   Sending an amendment does not count as listening
\n   Let’s not sharpen our divisions
\n[Lines are forming at the microphones]<\/p>\n

Moderator will begin taking questions
\nPoint of Order: No motion is in order which conflicts with the body’s constitution. The main motion conflicts with the Book of Confessions<\/i>. Moderator asks for Clerk’s advice. Clerk asks ACC to comment on the Constitutional issue. Paul Hooker – The question assumes the Constitution is of a uniform nature. It is really two parts. The BofC spans a large theological spectrum. BofO guides us in operating the church. ACC opinion – A statement in the BofC might not pose a conflict with a statement in the BofO.  Stated Clerk advises that the motion is in order and the Moderator so rules.<\/p>\n

Appeals the ruling of the chair. It will take a majority vote to sustain the chair.
\nDebate begins
\n   On the one hand the arguments are drawing on the Confessions as a foundation of our polity, on the other the need to have the debate on this subject that is now important in the life of the church
\nQuestion is called
\nMain motion – approved 70% – the Moderator’s ruling is sustained<\/p>\n

Motion to limit debate to 10 speaker each for and against (requires 2\/3 vote)
\nAdvisory delegates – Slightly no excepts MADs all yes
\nCommissioners –
\nThe Stated Clerk preforms an “intervention” – motion only says commissioners and does not specify exactly what part of debate
\nModerator rules it out of order<\/p>\n

Question: Commissioner asks if having a minority report is appropriate to answer all committee business items. Stated Clerk says it is.<\/p>\n

Motion: That all business related to 13-04 be concluded by 4 PM. (Requires 2\/3)
\nAdvisory – TSADs strong no, YAADs slightly no, EADs even, MADs strong yes
\n[Note: I am using the descriptive rather than numbers because for some of these there are significant abstentions and I can’t type fast enough to give all 12 numbers.]
\nCommissioners: 53% yes and 46% no. Not 2\/3 so does not pass<\/p>\n

Perfecting the Main Motion
\nCommittee recommendation so declared perfected<\/p>\n

Perfecting the Substitute Motion
\nAmendment – Add 13-14 and 13-Bus to the minority report since intent is to answer all Committee business with this minority report. Approved on voice vote
\nMotion – Limit debate on item 13-04 and all pending motions in its regard that for each part be limited to 10 speakers for or against. (Requires 2\/3)
\n   Advisory – TSADs and YAADs 40% yes, EADs and MADs slightly yes
\n   Commissioners – 61% yes so does not pass
\nMotion to declare perfected not recognized
\nAmendment to remove 13-02 from the list – Advisory yes except EADs strong no
\nQuestion: Is the maker of the motion supportive of the minority report? Stated Clerk that is not a shall but a should. Maker of motion “To get my amendment approved I will vote for the minority report.”
\nCommissioners: 42% yes, 57% no defeated
\nQuestion: Request that all votes related to Committee 13 be by electronic voting. Moderator points out that will take more time. Using cards to get sense of the Assembly Moderator agrees to use electronic voting frequently but not exclusively
\nSubstitute declared perfected<\/p>\n

“Shall the Substitute Motion become the Main Motion?”
\nDebate begins
\nOur presbyteries don’t want to go through this again
\nClergy in a tough position and we need to talk about the Authoritative Interpretation
\nPart of our pastoral duty is to lift up scripture and say no when Jesus has directed us otherwise
\nMember of committee talks about hearing a lot of “emotional blackmail” from both sides. Not helpful
\nYAAD In favor of substitute to give presbyteries a chance to decide
\nTSAD Need to broaden our definition of marriage<\/p>\n

5 minute break
\nYAADs led an energizer – for the record there are some good dancers among the Stated Clerk and the Associate State Clerks<\/p>\n

Resume business
\nQuestion: Can we get perspective from mission partners and director of world mission. Hunter Farrel – 35 of our global partners have indicated that changing the definition would damage relations, six would have to issue statements, and 18 would probably break relations.<\/p>\n

Debate
\nSupport minority report-We have broken churches that need time to heal
\nLike in Acts is God doing a new thing?
\nJesus said nothing about homosexuality but there is an argument from silence. But affirmed original creation
\nFaithful committed relationships are consistent with scripture
\nApproval of main motion would cause problems in the Korean community
\nScripture says “there is neither…but we are one in Jesus”
\nGod loves us unconditionally but Jesus said “a man leaves…”
\nApproving the substitute motion means we can’t debate the merits of the AI
\nJesus did not look to society or to the church but to scripture
\nThere is not time to wait four years to heal broken relationships and wait to do what’s right
\nQuestion: What about the case where a clergy is asked to bless a heterosexual union without a marriage. (e.g. the case of older adults who might lose benefits if they were to marry) Committee says they did not discuss such situations
\nSense that we are moving to a new vision – need vision and justice but not to change the definition of marriage
\nTo study this delays justice – unfair to make suffering people wait
\nApology for wrongs but because I love you I need to uphold the standard of one man and one woman
\nIf this takes us into the storm so be it – we trust that God is still God even in the midst of the storm
\nQuestion: Is there anything that would make sure a congregation does the study. Answer: There is no enforcement by GA or presbytery to make sure a congregation does it.
\nThe Presbyterian church has embraced a new orthodoxy. Presbyteries losing churches and members
\nWhat does it say about us that instead of leading the PC(USA) is playing catch-up to states like New York?
\nYAAD says that YAADs are divided as well
\nCommissioner reminds the Assembly that there has already been a Special Committee on Marriage and Civil Unions that cost the church $60K. Now there is a proposal for another committee costing $40K
\nQuestion: What is LGBTQ? Discussion about the various terms the Q stands for<\/p>\n

Request for prayer beginning with silence.
\nModerator now has commissioners go into their prayer groups to share “what have you heard, what are you feeling?”
\nModerator closes in prayer<\/p>\n

Vote to call the question – Advisory delegates yes, Commissioners 95% yes
\nShall the Substitute Motion become the main motion?
\n     Advisory delegates: TSADs – 94% No, YAADs strong no, EADs and MADs mild yes
\n     Commissioners: 323 to 346, motion is defeated<\/p>\n

Back to the main motion.
\nMinority Report #2 on Item 13-04
\nSuggests that if our definition of marriage is to be redefined than we should change not just the definition in the Book of Order but “a full constitutional redefinition”<\/p>\n

The Main Motion is perfected<\/p>\n

Perfecting the Substitute Motion
\nAmendment: Strike the last sentence regarding necessity of amending confessions since that is inconsistent with ACC advice (and he apologizes for a lack of bow tie but he is sporting a stylish GA Junkie button. \"\" )
\n   Advisory delegates agree, MADs strongly
\n   Commissioners: 73% yes, 24% no<\/p>\n

5 minute break<\/p>\n

Resume debate
\nQuestions: Does this minority report have implications for divorce? What about the W-4.9000 mention of a civil contract which is out of step with several jurisdictions? Answers: No and the church gets to define marriage.<\/p>\n

Amendment to have Office of Worship design and implement a discussion in each presbytery and session and get feedback one year from now.
\nPoint of order: Something like this was in the minority report. Stated Clerk- yes it was. Moderator – I rule it out of order. Committee Moderator – We have something like this in our business can we do that? Moderator – yes you can.
\n[Great moment when the Committee Moderator asked “Mr. Moderator” and Moderator Presa went looking out on the floor and the Committee Moderator had to say “next to you.”]<\/p>\n

Debate on “Shall the minority report become the main motion?”
\nEAD from Guatemala – How will our church be affected? If you really care about your partners around the world, listen to us. But to listen you need to be quiet.
\nQuestion: There are other scripture references that are not in the minority report. (more of a statement than question)<\/p>\n

[Hope you don’t mind if I am a bit more lax about getting every idea here because we are hearing a lot of the same ones as the past debate although there is more quoting of scripture by those supporting the substitute motion than in the previous debate.]<\/p>\n

Question called – Approved 95%
\nWill the substitute become the main motion
\n   Prayer
\n   Advisory delegates: TSADs 19% yes, YAADs 20% yes, EADs 60% yes, MADs 29% yes
\n   Commissioners: 266 yes, 397 no, 3 abstain<\/p>\n

Return to the main motion
\nAmendments are not in order, we go straight to debate
\nToday the PC(USA) has the opportunity to be prophetic, My opinion has changed. We need to take the prophetic word not to the world but to the rest of the church
\nGod made us different created in the image of God.
\nThe Bible has many different examples\/definitions of marriage, reflects cultural location
\nPoint of order: Ask that people waiting at microphones stand in line and not cluster in groups. No response from Moderator
\nIt would be a rash thing to approve this
\nQuestion: Where are we going? Is this motion still in tandem with the second recommendation? Yes
\nNeed for LGBTQ justice now
\nLets show God’s love, we are in the presence of his Kingdom
\nPoint of Information: In all the paperwork we have it refers to Christian marriage. Can we marry other faiths? Committee Moderator: This is addressed in that section of the Directory for Worship
\nChange is hard, sometimes painful. I tried driving in Scotland but instinct was hard to overcome. Give our parishioners some credit – they will get used to it.
\nAs we debate these issues we need to remember all the people who have left the church
\nQuestion: When do dissents have to be filed? When is the end of the meeting? Stated Clerk: I am having real questions when the end of the meeting will be. Realistically, you have to the end of the meeting tomorrow which would be at 11:15 before worship.<\/p>\n

Moderator asks commissioners and delegates to break into their discussion\/prayer groups
\nCalled back to order with “Spirit of the Living God”<\/p>\n

Question is called – on voice vote
\nModerator prays, nothing can separate us from the Love of God, “neither yes votes nor no votes”
\n     Advisory delegates: TSADs 82% yes, YAADs 75% yes, EADs split even, MADs 29% yes
\n     Commissioners: 308 yes, 338 no, 2 abstain, defeated<\/p>\n

The report is arrested but a motion to disapprove this item will need to be made
\nClerk makes a couple of announcements including that we only have the room for another  17 1\/2 hours (and we have 8 1\/2 reports)<\/p>\n

With prayer we adjourn for dinner
\nSee you at 7:30 PM SORRY – THAT IS 7:00 PM!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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