{"id":480,"date":"2010-02-24T05:00:00","date_gmt":"2010-02-24T13:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blog.gajunkie.com\/?p=480"},"modified":"2010-02-24T05:00:00","modified_gmt":"2010-02-24T13:00:00","slug":"seminaries-supporting-the-pcusa-gathering-numbers","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blog.gajunkie.com\/?p=480","title":{"rendered":"Seminaries Supporting The PC(USA) &#8211; Gathering Numbers"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>I spent my lunch hour today surfing seminary web sites.&nbsp; It was enlightening.&nbsp; A few of the things I learned were&#8230;<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>I don&#8217;t have the prerequisite background to pursue a D.Min. (no real surprise there)<\/li>\n<li>The quality of seminary web sites varies widely<\/li>\n<li>The information available on seminary web sites also varies widely &#8211; but it depends on what you are looking for and who they target as their primary audience &#8212; and it is probably not me.&nbsp; (I have a hand in these things in my day job so evaluating that part was a bit of a &#8220;busman&#8217;s holiday.&#8221;)<\/li>\n<li>Some detailed facts are easier to find on some sites than on other sites<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>What I actually started out doing was to gather numbers about various seminaries and their degree programs, specifically the total enrollment in their Masters of Divinity Program.&nbsp; The ability to find these numbers varied widely between the PC(USA) seminaries.<\/p>\n<p>First, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) lists total enrollment numbers for each of the ten PC(USA) seminaries &#8212; You can begin on the <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.pcusa.org\/seminaries\/seminaries\/index.htm\">list page<\/a> and navigate through to the specific detail page for each seminary.<\/p>\n<p>To have a look at that size number I started visiting the different web sites and found the availability of that data highly variable &#8212; and from my search I can&#8217;t tell whether it is not present or just that it can not be reasonably found.&nbsp; High marks for availability goes to Princeton who has their <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www3.ptsem.edu\/Content.aspx?id=1242\">PTS Statistics<\/a> clearly linked to the navigation bar on the front page.&nbsp; For detail, you can not beat <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.lpts.edu\/\">Louisville Seminary<\/a> which under their <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.lpts.edu\/About_Us\/default.asp\">About Us page<\/a> you can drill down to a VERY detailed <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.lpts.edu\/About_Us\/Fact_Book.pdf\">Annual Fact Book<\/a> &#8211; a little harder to find but a statistics freak&#8217;s dream.&nbsp; <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.austinseminary.edu\">Austin<\/a> was a shade harder to find but under their <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.austinseminary.edu\/page.cfm?p=419\">Media Relations<\/a> they have a <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.austinseminary.edu\/uploaded\/about_us\/pdf\/Fact_Sheet.pdf\">nice fact sheet<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>On the other end of the spectrum it was difficult to find specific numbers for most of the other seminaries.&nbsp; For <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.itc.edu\/pages%5Csmith.asp\">Johnson C. Smith<\/a> that is very understandable &#8212; as a 21 student section of <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.itc.edu\">ITC<\/a> having a robust media unit is probably not a top priority.&nbsp; But <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/mccormick.edu\">McCormick<\/a> and <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.pts.edu\">Pittsburgh<\/a>?&nbsp; In both cases it took some doing to find total number of students and there was no breakdown by program.&nbsp; And at Pittsburgh I actually found two different numbers &#8212; <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.pts.edu\/UserFiles\/File\/resources\/Publications\/Advancement%20Viewbook.pdf\">337<\/a> versus &#8220;<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.pts.edu\/current-students\">approximately 370<\/a>.&#8221;&nbsp; (And that is not even counting the fact that <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/mccormick.edu\/content\/who-we-are-today\">McCormick still thinks there are eleven Presbyterian Seminaries<\/a>.) OK, maybe I&#8217;m the only one who really cares about these numbers.<\/p>\n<p>What struck me as I was looking at these was that the PC(USA) web site numbers were consistently higher than the specific numbers reported by the seminary itself:<\/p>\n<p><center><\/p>\n<table>\n<tbody>\n<tr>\n<td>Seminary<\/td>\n<td>Seminary<br \/>Reported <\/td>\n<td>PC(USA)<br \/>Reported <\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td>&nbsp;Austin<\/td>\n<td>&nbsp;<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.austinseminary.edu\/uploaded\/about_us\/pdf\/Fact_Sheet.pdf\">255<\/a><\/td>\n<td>&nbsp;<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.pcusa.org\/seminaries\/seminaries\/austin.htm\">273<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td>&nbsp;Louisville<\/td>\n<td>&nbsp;<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.lpts.edu\/About_Us\/Fact_Book.pdf\">210<\/a><\/td>\n<td>&nbsp;<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.pcusa.org\/seminaries\/seminaries\/louisville.htm\">217<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td>&nbsp;Pittsburgh<\/td>\n<td>&nbsp;<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.pts.edu\/UserFiles\/File\/resources\/Publications\/Advancement%20Viewbook.pdf\">337<\/a><\/td>\n<td><a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.pcusa.org\/seminaries\/seminaries\/pittsburgh.htm\">&nbsp;370<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td>&nbsp;Princeton<\/td>\n<td>&nbsp;<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www3.ptsem.edu\/Content.aspx?id=1242\">615<\/a><\/td>\n<td>&nbsp;<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.pcusa.org\/seminaries\/seminaries\/princeton.htm\">703<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<p><\/center><br \/>So, are they counting different things or are they reporting different years and this is normal fluctuation?<\/p>\n<p>I should say that for <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.union-psce.edu\">Union<\/a> I could piece together total numbers adding the <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.union-psce.edu\/prospective\/richmond\/index.php\">300 at the Richmond Campus<\/a> and the <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.union-psce.edu\/prospective\/charlotte\/index.php\">90 at the Charlotte campus<\/a>, which is actually higher than the <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.pcusa.org\/seminaries\/seminaries\/union.htm\">365 listed by the denomination<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>For where I am headed with this what I really wanted was the number of students in the Master of Divinity program.&nbsp; Searching through the web sites I was able to find the following numbers:<\/p>\n<p><center><\/p>\n<table>\n<tbody>\n<tr>\n<td>&nbsp;Seminary<\/td>\n<td>Number of<br \/>M.Div. Students<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td>&nbsp;Austin<\/td>\n<td>&nbsp;<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.austinseminary.edu\/uploaded\/about_us\/pdf\/Fact_Sheet.pdf\">123<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td>&nbsp;Columbia<\/td>\n<td>&nbsp;<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.ctsnet.edu\/Supporting\/EndowmentSS.aspx\">180<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td>&nbsp;Louisville<\/td>\n<td>&nbsp;<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.lpts.edu\/About_Us\/Fact_Book.pdf\">103<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td>&nbsp;McCormick<\/td>\n<td>&nbsp;<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/mccormick.edu\/news\/new-class-continues-upward-diversity-trend\">154 (All masters programs)<br \/><\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td>&nbsp;Princeton<\/td>\n<td>&nbsp;<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www3.ptsem.edu\/Content.aspx?id=1242\">411<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<p><\/center><br \/>And as I was looking at these numbers where denominational affiliations were reported PC(USA) students seemed to number about 40-50% of both total students and M.Div. students.<\/p>\n<p>Now looking at all these numbers one fact should stick out &#8212; Princeton Theological Seminary is the heavy weight in this system.&nbsp; Just come to one of our presbytery meetings and that will be apparent.<\/p>\n<p>And now we will let the other shoe drop&#8230;<\/p>\n<p>For those who have been involved in preparation for ministry or the call process in the PC(USA) you know that ministers and candidates also come from non-PC(USA) schools, but there is one seminary in particular that trains more Presbyterians than all the other schools&#8230; <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.fuller.edu\">Fuller Seminary<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>(Before I go any further I need to put full disclosure in here:&nbsp; While I have no association with Fuller, it is in my presbytery and I know a lot of people who were or are students, faculty or staff at Fuller.)<\/p>\n<p>For those of you who are not familiar with seminaries in the PC(USA), Fuller Seminary is a multidenominational seminary which is often only half-jokingly referred to as &#8220;the largest Presbyterian seminary.&#8221;&nbsp; This school, headed by a <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.fuller.edu\/about-fuller\/trustees-and-administration\/president.aspx\">Presbyterian president<\/a>, has a reported &#8220;<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.fuller.edu\/current-students\/student-resources\/denominational-resources\/office-of-presbyterian-ministries-faculty.aspx\">Presbyterian Faculty<\/a>&#8221; of&nbsp; 15 (and I know one that is no<br \/>\nt listed), a Presbyterian student body of around <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.fuller.edu\/page.aspx?id=2147483936\">300<\/a> (compared to Princeton&#8217;s <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www3.ptsem.edu\/Content.aspx?id=1242\">259<\/a>), and Presbyterians are the largest <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.fuller.edu\/current-students\/student-resources\/denominational-resources\/office-of-presbyterian-ministries-presbyterians-at-fuller.aspx\">denominational group<\/a> on campus.<\/p>\n<p>Is this important?&nbsp; It is a good natured but running argument in our presbytery about whether you pastors are trained at Princeton or Fuller (or both).&nbsp; But throughout the church we need to be aware that, for good or ill, there is an alternative to PC(USA) seminaries.&nbsp; In addition, it is interesting to see how this is reflected in the denomination&#8217;s statistics.<\/p>\n<p>So now that we have had a look at the seminaries, next time we move on to look at how they are represented &#8220;in the real world.&#8221; <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I spent my lunch hour today surfing seminary web sites.&nbsp; It was enlightening.&nbsp; A few of the things I learned were&#8230; I don&#8217;t have the prerequisite background to pursue a [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[5,27,23],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-480","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-pcusa","category-seminary","category-statistics"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.2 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Seminaries Supporting The PC(USA) - Gathering Numbers - The GA Junkie<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/blog.gajunkie.com\/?p=480\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Seminaries Supporting The PC(USA) - Gathering Numbers - The GA Junkie\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"I spent my lunch hour today surfing seminary web sites.&nbsp; 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