Monthly Archives: June 2008

What Will The Next Year Look Like In The PC(USA)?

What will the next year look like in the PC(USA)?

At
the PC(USA) General Assembly in the hours following the Assembly passing another proposed amendment to change G-6.0106b, the
question that moderators, clerks, and executives seemed to be asking
one another was “What does this mean for your presbytery?” With the
passage of the overture to send the modification of G-6.0106b back out to
the presbyteries again there was concern for what the next year would
look like in their body. And this was from leaders who themselves and
their presbyteries were across the theological spectrum. This was not about the issues, this was about the health of the Body of Christ. The executives were concerned enough about this that they gathered in prayer and reflection on this issue. It was almost
as an afterthought that anyone asked the question “Will it pass?” (In
case you wonder, the consensus is probably not.)

For those who care about this issue, and many do, this is an important issue. Whether you see this as an issue of justice or an issue of Scriptural authority, either way these are things that the church should be about. But we must conduct our discussions and hold our debates and interpret to our wider church in ways that witness to Jesus’ “High Priestly Prayer” where He says “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.
May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.” [John 17:20, 21]

Amendment B was
passed in 1996 adding G-6.0106b to the Form of Government. Now, in the
following ten General Assemblies its removal or modification have come up at virtually every GA,
and twice, in 1997 and 2001, sent out to the presbyteries for modification or removal. Is it any
wonder that the “people in the pews” are getting tired of it. We polity
wonks and GA Junkies have an insight into how God, through the Holy
Spirit, works in our covenant communities through these governing body
meetings and our connectionalism. We need to recognize that the roughly 2000 people here at the
General Assembly represent about 0.1% of the PC(USA). Suppose we say
that there are twenty times that number who are polity wonks and care
about this stuff as a polity exercise: That means that 98% of the PC(USA) does not really
understand the process. (Note: I chose twenty times because that gives
twice the number of ministers in the PC(USA) so we will say that for
every minister there is an elder, or a member like Mark, who also understands.)

The point is that this issue keeps coming back and most of the PC(USA) either doesn’t care, doesn’t really understand why, or thinks there are better things to be spending our time on. And again, this cuts across the theological spectrum.

How will this situation in the PC(USA) change? I see a few possible pathways to accepting the status quo or the removal or modification of G-6.0106b.

The first is the movement of the Holy Spirit. I do not discount the power of the Holy Spirit and prayer to bring the church together enabling us to settle this or set it aside.

Another is generational change. If what appears to be the current trend continues, as the younger generation comes into fuller leadership in the church they, if the YAAD vote is any indication, will be more amenable to passing these changes at the presbytery level. This may be complicated if individuals, with more experience and exposure to a variety of ideas, change their theological leanings with age. It is also a call to all of us to provide sound theological and Biblical teaching to each generation so they are prepared to move into leadership and make these decisions.

Maybe the most likely avenue to acceptance of new ordination standards by the denomination will be attrition. As the discussion and disagreements continue the evangelical side is finding it more faithful to depart than dispute. The ultimate end member of this is that the PC(USA) will be left as a smaller, throughly progressive denomination that can then adopt these ordination standards. With enough departures this would effectively result in a de facto schism. Of course, the disagreements could rise to the level of creating a full-scale rapid parting of ways at some time in the future. Or, the outcome could be two churches under one roof if flexible presbytery membership, similar to what has been proposed at the last two GA’s, is adopted.

The most unfortunate path for change would be apathy: enough people on one side get tired of the dispute and just give up while remaining with the denomination. Schism is preferable to apathy? From a practical standpoint apathy would be the most convenient — no more dispute over polity and property while keeping as many people and places on the books as possible. From a Reformed perspective it would be bad news because it means that we as a denomination have given up on working in community to be faithful to our Biblical heritage by being “always reforming according to the Word of God.”

So what does the year hold? I hope and pray that as this comes to our presbyteries there will be a working of the Holy Spirit and that we may be open to the Spirit’s leading so that we may be faithful to what we are taught by Scripture concerning both qualifications for ordained office as well as glorifying God in how we discuss and decide on it.

The 218th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (USA) — Quality of Media Coverage of Ordination Standards

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For members of Presbyterian churches, particularly the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), it is a generally accepted reality that the news media usually has trouble with our polity. For constitutional amendments that must be approved by the presbyteries the media generally skims over, or ignores, the fact that action by the General Assembly is not the absolute word but the beginning of a process.

With that in mind I looked at some of the media coverage of the PC(USA) GA decision related to G-6.0106b, the “fidelity and chastity” section.

Presbyterian News Service
Probably the best coverage, but we would hope so. It states right at the very beginning that this is only a proposal to be voted on by the presbyteries. It also mentions the fact that the presbyteries have voted on changes to this section twice since it was added in 1996.

Associated Press
From the mass media this is my preferred story on the decision. While the headline still does not get it correct (“Presbyterian assembly votes to drop gay clergy ban”) I really like the fact that the article itself mentions in the third paragraph that it still requires presbytery approval and right off in the first paragraph it says it sets up a confrontation. It also mentions that changes have been rejected twice before. Well done.

Los Angeles Times
This, in its entirety, contains all the pieces but for too long in the article it sounds like this is a done deal. From the lead paragraphs you would think the constitution has been changed, and then about 1/3 through the article mentions presbytery approval. But the Times did a better job of reporting one fact, the vote, than the AP article. The Times reported the vote where the minority report was rejected. The AP story reported the final vote which had a higher yes vote. The Times also reports the two previous rejected attempts.

United Press International
Here is a news article that completely misses it. In this article it is a done deal. No mention of presbytery vote, no mention of previous failures of removing the constitutional language. As far as you would know from reading this “fidelity and chastity” is gone.

Just a quick survey. As I looked through roughly 150 articles most either picked up the AP or the LA Times article. I did not see the UPI story repeated in another publication.

Now, how many of us had to explain this several times over to people in our congregations this morning?

The 218th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (USA) — GA Summary Sheet

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Every year I create for my own congregation a one page summary of the actions of the just completed General Assembly. I try to write it for a more general audience and I keep it to one page. (But the ordination standards section is a bit challenging this year so you may have to explain it to others.) I have linked to it below. If you find it useful you are welcome to distribute it to those who might be interested.

http://www.gajunkie.com/218GAa.pdf

Correction: I was in error about the fact that the vote on same-sex marriage was close. Thanks to Presbylaw for catching my mistake. A slightly modified version of the sheet has been posted.

The 218th General Assembly of the PC(USA) — Live Blogging Saturday 2 Morning

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Greetings — I will be live blogging most plenary sessions of the PC(USA)
General Assembly. I apologize to those with e-mail feeds or a feed
reader since you will probably only get the first section of the post
since I’ll be adding updates throughout the session. Also, if you are
reading this on a browser live you will also need to refresh the screen
since I don’t have push technology on my blog. It’s tough being Web
1.99999 in a Web 2.0 world. Thanks for your patience.

This is not the only source on the web for this event.
The PC(USA) official webcast can be found at http://www.pcusa.org/ga218/schedule/streaming-schedule.htm
There is also a live blogging site at http://www.scribblelive.com/Event/PCUSA_General_Assembly_218
I have gotten feedback that this second link may cause trouble on some systems and it is being looked into. Sorry about that

[My commentary will be in brackets]

From this morning’s worship: The preacher, the Rev. Dan Chun, talked about walking humbly with God. One of the things he said was the strongest thing his elders could say was “I’m probably right, but I might be wrong.”

Friday Evening, June 27, 2008
The 218th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)

Following worship

Today is mostly formalities. They don’t want any unpredictable business to hold up adjournment

9:32 AM — Meeting reconvened with song and prayer by a YAAD
[Well done, she has gifts and great future.]

9:36 — Bills and Overtures
Minutes for Wednesday approved. Other minutes and protests will be reviewed later by Committee members.

9:38 — General Assembly Procedures
Final financial implications – New spending 2008 $53,330, 2009 $341,385, 2010 $118,595.
Motion to set per capita at $6.15 for 2009 and 2010 approved on voice vote

9:42 — Mission Coordination and Budget
Final financial implications – Have GAMC make the necessary adjustments in the budget. Approved on voice vote

9:47 — COLA for the 219th (2010) General Assembly brings greetings and invitation
Entertaining video about the Twin Cities Area. [Twin Cities are warmer in July than San Jose. No surprise. Mark Twain said “The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco.”]

10:00 — Introduction of General Assembly Council and the Committee on the Office of the General Assembly
Introductions being done

10:05 — Thank you to the Local Arrangements Committee
From a commissioner and a YAAD
From the Office of the General Assembly
Thanks from the COLA Moderator and Vice-moderator and recognition of several individuals and artists

10:15 — Co-Moderators of the YAAD Caucus
Gifts presented to the Moderator of the General Assembly: A stole signed by all the YAADs, cards to read during travels, and a step-stool signed and saying “To support you and help lift you up.” Watch and cards for the Vice-moderator, and a pen for the new Stated Clerk.

10:19 — Recognition by Cliff of the platform staff who handle the logistics and behind the scenes stuff.
Recognition of the GA staff including resource people and committee staff.

10:24 — Announcements from the State Clerk

10:25 — Personal word from Cliff. “Its been a good run.” Gratitude to all for the experience

10:26 — Final word from Gradye Parsons “The only way that any of us are in the church is because of God’s action.”
And, to Cliff, “Thank you mister Stated Clerk.” One last standing ovation for Cliff

10:28 — From Bruce “Final words as desired” — Thanks for your support and I look forward to working with all of you the next two years.

10:29 — Closing service of worship

10:45 — The 218th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) is adjourned and is dissolved upon the convening of the 219th General Assembly on July 3, 2010

Thanks for the privilege of sharing this. I have a bunch of comments I’ll try to get shaped in the next couple of weeks.

Go in peace. Amen.

The 218th General Assembly of the PC(USA) — Live Blogging Friday Evening

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[My commentary will be in brackets]

Observations from the day:
There appears to be significant confusion and skepticism over the $2 million allocated for legal expenses. I have talked to several people through out the day who read my comments and correction who thought the same thing, that GA had left it to come out of per capita. When I’m confused I’m glad to know that I am not alone. But the second thing people immediately say is “If it is coming out of extra opportunity giving they will never get the money for that.” We will see.

Regarding the action to send G-6.0106b back to the congregations: There is an under current of opinion from several individuals on all sides of the issue who are active in the church that I have talked to throughout the afternoon that this really is not a good time to open up this debate. While they respect the faithfulness of the GA in discerning God’s will, from the point of view of where presbyteries are with the “conversation” following the PUP report, this is too early to reopen this question. I hope that in my presbytery the groundwork that has been laid will support us as we have this conversation and that we will do it respectfully.

Finally, my own opinion on where we sit with business. The report of Committee 4 was arrested in the middle of debate on the definition of marriage. It was recessed ten minutes early. While many were ready for a break, I think that in that remaining ten, maybe fifteen minutes, the business item could have been wrapped up.

Friday Evening, June 27, 2008
The 218th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)

7:32 PM — Meeting reconvened with prayer by a TSAD

7:36 — Return to the debate on item 04-08

For reference, here is the earlier work on 04-08:

Item 04-08 with comment: The definition of marriage
(Committee Moderator begins reading and then says that she has the wrong script)
Substitute motion from the floor: Assembly approve the original overture 04-08

No amendments to the main motion: the main motion is perfected

No amendments to the substitute motion: The substitute motion is perfected

Shall the substitute motion become the main motion?
(lines forming at the microphones)
The committee worked hard and this is not the time for another controversy
Need to recognize loving relationships
Jesus taught against it
Homosexuality is a natural construct

Motion to recess for dinner (in the middle of debate: Advisory yes, except MAD no; Commissioners yes 89%

Debate continues
Enough damage done to the church today, we don’t need more
Love your neighbor as yourself
The committee worked hard, accept the work of the committee
Carl Mazza speaks for the substitute motion on principle
“If you want to completely shatter this denomination vote for that amendment” – Marj Carpenter [not one of the people I spoke to earlier but the same sentiment]
In light of what we have done earlier today we should make the polity consistent
Don’t push churches beyond tipping point, “love mercy”
Church should not let this issue get ahead of it, don’t be late to recognize it again
[YAAD mentions Constitutional right to pursuit of happiness. Besides being sketchy theology, that is not a Constitutional right but is in the Declaration of Independence.]
Do we want this denomination to have the appearance of being hateful and attacking a minority? [Our gallery looked at each other saying that comment was harsh and unfair. I did not quote in full or verbatim.]

Motion to call the question: Approved on voice vote

Shall the substitute motion become the main motion?
Advisory all vote no, most by a small margin; Commissioners no 80%

More debate
Move the question: Electronic: Advisory yes by a wide margin; Commissioners yes 94%
Main motion: slightly yes; Commissioners yes 77%
A YAAD took Bruce to task for not calling on an equal number of YAADs for and against. According to the YAAD he called on a highly different number of YAADs.

Item 04-13: Equal rights for Families of Same-gender partners
Debate
Amendment that I think tries to incorporate parts of similar item 04-12.
Amendment passes by electronic vote
Amendment to include “theological balance” on the task force
Amendment passes on voice vote, but close and not challenged
Voice vote appears to pass but division of the house
Point of order: That there is a confusion of language and the amendments appear to have a problem
The back room is fixing it up.
Gradye – “Sometimes the best way to go forward is to go backwards.” Redo the amendment
Vote again on “Theological Balance” – Passes on voice vote.
Main motion, again: Electronic: Advisory yes, most by a wide margin; Commissioners yes 76%

Item 04-12 answer with 04-13 approved on voice vote

Item 04-16:
No discussion
Passes on voice vote

Item 04-17:
No discussion
Passes on voice vote

Item 04-28: Commissioner Resolution: On urging a gracious, pastoral response to churches requesting dismissal from the PC(USA)
Robert Austell, the commissioner who signed it, spoke in favor of being gracious
Already addressed in 07-13? ACC says that was procedural, this is pastoral
Note that legal issues are complicated and this item is difficult when the church initiates the civil legal action.
Some are saying the churches initiated 33 or the 39 cases, another says 37 times the churches initiated it.
Amendment to strike “Believing that… litigation is deadly to the cause of Christ”
Amendment fails on voice vote; Division of the house: Advisory split, slightly yes; Commissioners no 56%
Debate continues
leave the PC(USA) but leave the keys with those who want to stay
Call the question: passed on voice vote
Electronic: Advisory yes by a strong margin; Commissioners yes 76%

Information item votes of the presbyteries.

This concludes the report of the Church Polity Committee

Point of order: From Roberts Rules of Order page 1062: A motion can be divided even after the motion to call the question has been moved.
Cliff – I may not have been clear but at that particular point we were in the middle of the vote and it was not in order

Motion to reconsider 05-09:
Strong debate about fairness, the hour, and people having left.
Call the question: Advisory strong yes; Commissioners yes 97%
Vote to reconsider: Advisory strong no; Commissioners no 52%

Point of Order: We are calling each other names and questioning integrity

Committee 9 — Social Justice Issues
Consent agenda approved with one item pulled

Item 09-06 as amended:
Committee added homeschooling as an education option
Approved on voice vote

Item 09-07:
Amendment to add a request to forgo a meal a week to donate to a food program
Amendment to the amendment to add “if one is able” to forgoing a meal
Call the question: Passed on voice vote
Amendment to the amendment passed on voice vote
Amendment passed on voice vote

Main motion: Passed on voice vote

9:15
Item 09-04:
Presentation on the PDA response to Katrina
Amendment to recognize PDA working with local congregations
Amendment passed on voice vote
No more discussion
Passes on voice vote

Item 09-15:
No discussion
Approved on voice vote

Item 09-05 as amended: On Addressing the Tragedy of America’s Gun Violence
Amendment to substitute “magazines” for “clips” – Use correct terminology; strike section 5 since it is already is the law of the land
Discussion on amendment that section 5 address local not federal law
Voice vote too close to call; Electronic: Advisory generally yes; Commissioners yes 72%
Main motion: Advisory strong yes; Commissioners yes 84%

Item 09-14 as amended: Lift every voice — Voting rights
No discussion
Approved on voice vote

Item 09-09: Social Creed for the 21st Century
Minority report – study it and bring it back to the 219th

No amendments: the main motion is perfected

No amendments: the minority report is perfected
[And the commissioners, like me, are getting too tired to work well]

Question about financial implications for the minority report? No implications since much initial work is already done.

Shall the minority report become the main motion?
Debate about stalling and the fact that most in the church are not familiar with this yet.
Motion to call the question passes on voice vote
Vote on the substitute motion becoming the main motion.
Electronic: Advisory mostly no; Commissioners no 60%
One speaker for that Bruce has to silence forcefully running over time with other commissioners supporting Bruce
No speakers against so the question is called and approved by voice vote
Main motion: Advisory generally yes; Commissioners yes 83%

Item 09-11:
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 09-21: Immigration laws
A couple of speakers in favor
Passed on voice vote

10:00 [If you can’t tell my blogging is getting slower and less informative with the second late evening in a row]
Item 09-20
Question about effectiveness and evaluation
No more discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 09-10 as amended:
Debate
Chemical engineer says that report is technically solid
Item passes on voice vote

Item 09-08: Pay equity
Amendment to extend this to Presbyterian Colleges, Universities, and Schools
Comment from the clerk that we can encourage but have no way to enforce since they are independent entities
Call the question passed by voice vote
Amendment passes on voice vote
No discussion
Main motion as amended passes on voice vote

Item 09-13: Singing new songs to God
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 09-16:
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 09-12: Study the status of women at all levels in the PC(USA)
Question – look at financial implications
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Minutes review was in order

We have a two minute video and it will take you at least that long to debate it.
Approved to watch the video

This concludes the report of the committee

10:23
We are in the home stretch of the evening. One committee left.
Three minute break

[Report that at one point the Scribble blog for GA218 was 4% of the whole Scribble activity. Who else would be on Scribble late on a Friday night.]

Committee 10 – Health Issues

Item 10-02:
No discussion
Approved on voice vote

Item 10-01 be answered by 10-02 approved on a voice vote

Item 10-03: Advocating both sides of the abortion issue
Minority report has been withdrawn
Amendment – To clarify wording that this applies to problem pregnancies and not reproductive options more broadly
Debate
Motion to divide the amendment: Advisory vote split; Commissioners no 313 to 315
Amendment fails on voice vote
Division of the house: Advisory no; Commissioners no 67%
Debate includes reference to current abortion policy
Can this be combined with human sexuality material? No, different topics
Why does this take $100,000 to print four pamphlets? It needs to be fair and balanced
Amendment to include these resources with the previously approved Human Sexuality Resources
Saves money but very different material and target audience
11:00 [You are getting sleepy…Very sleepy]
Call the question and all previous questions: Approved by voice vote
Vote on amendment: Fails on voice vote
Main motion: Voice vote too close to call; Electronic: Advisory yes, except for EADs; Commissioners yes 72%

Item 10-04 be answered by 10-03 approved on voice vote

Item 10-05: A policy statement on serious mental illness
Amendment to strike commissioned lay pastors from CPE training, not all presbyteries have CPE easily accessible
Amendment fails on voice vote; Division of the house: Advisory no; Commissioners no 69%
Debate
Do you expect me to do my job as a pastor if I have to do all these things. Can it pared down to 50 recommendations
These are not requirements, these are “urge” and “encourage” items
How does administering ordination exams relate to serious mental illness? Individuals with serious mental illness may be candidates – have reasonable accommodation
Amendment – Encourage CLP’s to complete CPE
Motion to call the question and all previous questions: Passed on voice vote
Vote on the amendment: Fails on voice vote
Main motion: Passed on voice vote

11:19 [About 80 stalwarts in the observer section with me]

Item 10-06: Supporting single payer health care reform
Minority report – Right to health care, eliminate single payer

No amendments for main motion: Declared perfected
No amendments for substitute motion: Declared perfected

Shall the substitute motion become the main motion?
Debate
Single payer not a good system, talk to Canadians
The committee worked hard, the minority report has very little committee support
My wife is a physician, Medicare is broken
Move to call the question and all previous questions: Passed by voice vote

Shall the substitute motion become the main motion?
Electronic: Advisory strongly no; Commissioners no 60%
(There is one Ecumenical delegate sticking this out. They get a round of applause.)

Main motion: Advisory yes; Commissioners yes 59%

Thanks to everyone for sticking this out
This concludes the report of the committee

Bruce “Apologies to any of you who had midnight in the pool”
[I was well past midnight in my prediction. Wrong again]
Announcements

Two committee meetings now: General Assembly Procedures and Mission Coordination and Budgets to finish up the budgets.

11:34 The General Assembly recesses with prayer by the Rev. Robert Austell

See you in the morning

The 218th General Assembly of the PC(USA) — Live Blogging Friday Afternoon

The 218th General Assembly of the PC(USA) — Live Blogging Friday Morning

3 Replies

[My commentary will be in brackets]

Friday Morning, June 27, 2008
The 218th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)

8:20 AM
The activity in the whole conference center is significantly slower than other mornings. It was a night long on business and short on sleep and it shows. The tables for corresponding members are almost empty. There are still a lot of empty seats at the commissioner area. And the observer gallery is pretty sparse.

8:33 — We are gaveled to order and opened with prayer by the ecumenical delegate from Canada

8:35 — Bills and Overtures reports and proposes the docket for the day. They also move to make commissioner speeches one minute. Commissioners rise to ask that if they have to have shorter time that platform presentations also be limited.

Motion from the floor to reconsider the docket. (That is a first for me.)
Voice vote close; Fails electronically, not really that close

8:42 — Still lots of commissioners filing in. They are missing this excitement

Advisory delegate suggests 90 seconds for speeches since that is the only substantial input they have since they have no vote.

Move the previous question

Suggestion to limit speakouts to 5 minutes, Bruce thinks the will of the body is no speakouts. A voice vote confirms that.

Motion to approve minutes.

Concludes the report of the committee

8:46
Per capita budget implications: [The legal reimbursement money does not seem to be in there. I’m not sure what is up with it then. I misunderstood the results from last night. The extra commitment opportunity fund was approved.]
Mission budget implications:

8:53 — Election of the Stated Clerk

Speak in order of nomination
Gradye Parsons: It is about gifts given to and by people. People who have used their gifts to serve the church. Stories about faithful Presbyterians who used their gifts in the service of the church and the world.
The future of the church matters to him. That is why he is standing for stated clerk. (Finished with almost a minute and a half of his time left.) [Nicely delivered. Story telling style. Familiar but not lively.]

Ed Koster: For the last two years has been discerning his call. Has heard the church say they want a stated clerk where connectionalism is about relationship. Who is even handed. Who has everyone at the table of discernment. Who will advocate for the poor and oppressed and fight racism.
Comes with experience and a grassroots view of the church. A theological background. Boldness.
Conflict is not necessarily bad. It indicates we are diverse and hold strong views. Can lead to beneficial change.
Time for new eyes and new perspective. Time to set a new course to do mission and ministry rather than fight over it. Jesus Christ is alive and well in the PC(USA).
[Good speech. Lively and engaging.]

William Tarbell: Four dimensions of the stated clerk’s office. Operational duties. Uses a systems analysis approach to address issues. [I think he just turned a lot of people off with “systems analysis”] Promotion and education to speak to the church: Experienced and even handed. Ecumenical tasks: Experienced, has done mission work around the world. Pastoral: Heard a story about John Knox — Two teenagers who asked John Knox what to do with their lives? “Turn your lives to the church.” In our lives together we need to “love one another.”

Charles “Casey” Jones: Have a funny name. We Presbyterians have a funny name too. As a child he thought all the other churches had funny names. Stated Clerk needs to be a spiritual leader. Permeate OGA with prayer. Will do what the Book of Order says in an even handed manner. Seek to narrow distance between local churches and Louisville. Bring the OGA a heart and mind that will always ask how does what we do affect people at the local level. Need to be connected and rooted in Jesus Christ. It is the name of Jesus Christ who unites us.
[Good speech, well delivered, engaging. On topic and understandable. That will help him greatly. It may now be between Jones and Parsons. We will see.]

Q&A
1) How will you keep faith with a GA to communicate decisions with which you may disagree
Parsons: It is the duty of the Stated Clerk. Will be diligent and faithful to what GA asks him to say
Koster: As Presbytery Stated Clerk has had to do it and has done it faithfully. Will continue to do
Tarbell: The stated clerk is your servant. Communications should be with care, accuracy and objectivity
Jones: Stated clerk supports the GA whether you agree or not. Agree with Bill that the clerk is your servant.

2) Area most needed in international outreach
Koster: Expand outreach to wider circle of churches and other interfaith groups
Tarbell: Develop extensive contacts with international brothers and sisters. OGA not the only international presence in the PC(USA)
Jones: Try to speak their language. They will do more for us than we will do for them. Cross-pollinate.
Parsons: There are over 700 reformed body on this planet. We have a lot to learn from them. Not just maintain ecumenical relationships but transform them.

3) Last year the PC(USA) lost over 57,000 members, but most Hispanics know nothing of the Presbyterian Church.
Tarbell: Need to relate and generate enthusiasm (no specifics given)
Jones: Local presbytery encourages churches to have Christian groups meet there even if not Presbyterian. Need appropriate flexibility like commissioned lay pastors.
Parsons: Need to develop welcoming spirit to all visiting our churches. Hispanics facing issues we can help address.
Koster: There are plenty of connections with other groups we could develop. Become a member of Christian Churches Together.
[Jones has been great about addressing back to the questioner. Tarbell picked that up this question.]

4) Where do the candidates stand on the authority of Scripture and its applicability to today?
Jones: It is an ordination vow. Need to be congruent with the Jesus of scripture. But our confessions form a big tent. Need to recognize Jesus in our world today.
Parsons: God’s great gift to us and should be our starting place. The Book reads us as we read it. Wrestling and struggling with God.
Koster: “I believe in Scripture. All of it.” What we tend to do is pick our favorite Scriptures and quote it all the time. Rarely seen someone who rejects authority of Scripture. It is the interpretation where we differ.
Tarbell: “Scripture is God’s song.” It is Holy and God’s Word and we will all have different points of view. But taking the ordination vow we have all taken God’s song.

5) Reflect on somewhere you might of failed and how it helped prepare you for this office.
Parsons: “My mother is watching so I need to be careful.” A number of years ago he had to “clerk” the call for a called GA
. Hauled to the GAPJC because of it. Learned to be transparent in what we do.
Koster: Relationships with African Americans not as good as it could be in his presbytery. Not as good as it could be. Regrets that. [Did not answer the application part of the question]
Tarbell: As a brand new pastor he got a call from a staff member that described symptoms that were red flags. He was not proactive but referred her to counseling. A couple of weeks later she ended her life. Learned about the necessity of being proactive and pastoral.
Jones: Sometimes God only gets your attention through pain. He had an agenda for one of his churches and he pushed it too hard. Has developed two parts to his congregation over worship style. Wait for the leading of the Holy Spirit

6) How would you direct the nFOG to the next GA?
Koster: This will require a great amount of study. It could use testing but that overture rejected. Will require a great deal of work.
Tarbell: Has concerns. Also not sure that two years will be enough. Stated clerk can not stop it from coming back in two years, that is decided. But a chance to find out who we are as Presbyterians.
Jones: Shows a desire for a “breath of fresh air” to blow through the church. [Nice subtle push for new leadership] I believe that if something is truly of God it keeps coming back. Time is our friend not our enemy.
Parsons: Need to read the current one and then engage the nFOG. Like the “before and after” diet picture about what we would ideally like to be. Need to let the Spirit work with us. That can be scary. Need to nail down “missional” theology.

7) Our internal struggles has led to blind spots. How would you address and change that?
Tarbell: Could not agree more. “When elephants fight the grass gets hurt.” We have blind spots to mission and our spirituality. The OGA needs to encourage due process to allow us to share together.
Jones: What are our children and grandchildren going to say about our blind spots. Spoiling environment and global poverty. OGA – Communion of the Saints include both the rest of the world as well as those before us. Need to connect in confessions.
Parsons: Those who disagree do agree on some things, and they fight because they have a hope for the church and what it can be. Can not see the Christ in each other. Need to come at these disagreements in different, fresh ways.
Koster: Need a full view of what is around us. Blind spots blind us from mission at our door. We focus on who we are not the world around us.

8) There is fear about what is going to happen in the future of the church.
Jones: “Fear not.” As Christians we should not be afraid. But there are things that should concern us. Need to get into the love of Jesus. [Didn’t really answer the question]
Parsons: Every church has fear of not succeeding or driving people away. But we are called to be the church and focus on Jesus because it is His church. Where is our faith? Get in the boat, go across the lake, there will be a storm, you will not die.
Koster: Fear because it feels like we are coming unglued. We have a great tradition and traditions and a great polity. Sometimes these things don’t bring us together when they should. Not getting along is also part of our tradition.
Tarbell: Fear is our most destructive enemy. Can rob us of faith. The clerk needs to instill trust and confidence in those around us. No thief can be successful in the face of Jesus Christ.

9) In the midst of our divided and polarized church will you create an environment where they are respected and valued.
Parsons: With 2.3 million people one person can not do it. That is a people job for all of us. Example of working together is the FOG Task Force who were people chosen that they can fight. Need to remember that Jesus brings us together.
Koster: We are not called to win, we are called to discern. Need an orderly debate that gives respect to every individual. It is the quality of the discussion and debate that we have. Need to talk to each other. Can begin it right now.
Tarbell: Contact every interest group in the church and have them designate a contact person for the OGA. Need to be moments among us when we rise up and shake the hand of the persons around us and say “God bless you.”
Jones: Like a kairos moment. Talks about his experience of relationship with other congregations around them, one more conservative, one more liberal.

The Q&A time is over.
[I will have to back off my earlier assessment. Based on the Q&A I think this is too close to call between Gradye and Casey.]

First Ballot
All advisory strongly for Parsons

Gradye Parsons is elected on the first ballot
Parsons: 405 votes, 57%
Jones: 176 votes, 25%
Koster: 110 votes, 15%
Tarbell: 21 votes, 3%

[I should not have made that comment above and I would have looked like a genius.]

With the usual light-show Gradye reenter the hall to applause

Service of installation.

Comments by Gradye including thanks to the other three.

10:36 — Two minute stretch

10:42 — Committee 5 – Church Orders and Ministry
Item 05-03: Models of examination procedures
Passes

Item 05-18 answered by this passes

Prayer and singing before the controversial issues

Item 05-12: Authoritative Interpretation of G-6.0108 for proper application
The debate begins
This is a backdoor way to change the constitution
This allows us to keep together
Question about what this does to the Bush decision. The clerk is only fielding process questions. Defers to the ACC about constitutional questions. ACC says that it should accomplish intent. But will need to be tested
TSAD raises question about “partitioning the church” where his ordination may not be recognized by every presbytery.
Restores historic principle to disagree on non-essentials. At the present time one standard raised above others
Imposes “red-state/blue-state mindset”
Call the question – Passes on voice vote
Vote on the main motion, Electronic: YAADs and MADs very close, TSADs strongly yes, EADs strongly no; Commissioners 53% yes
[I don’t have the numbers, but I think the YAADs were closer than that.]

Other items be answered by 05-12
05-01, 02, 04, 05, 07, 10
Passed on voice vote

Item 05-09 with comment: Substituting a new paragraph for G-6.0106b
Minority Report
11:13
The church has not had time to live with the PUP report and the study guides. Give the church more time to work with the process of discussion, understanding, and trust. A new study guide was issued in early 2008.

Perfecting the main motion
Amendment to delete item 2 – The past AI’s are rendered moot
Debate on the amendment
Called the question on voice vote
Vote on the amendment: all no to varying degrees; Commissioners no 63%
Main motion is perfected

Perfecting the minority report
Can I ask a question about the main motion? Bruce “You can start”
Question to the minority committee about their numbers. They based some numbers on the number of Presbyteries that submitted overtures. [False assumption in my opinion. You can consider the issue without submitting an overture.]
Minority report is perfected

Shall the minority report become the main motion?
Yes – the people in the pews are not ready yet
No – We have discussed this too long already
Yes – The process of the discussion causes problems. Unless we expect the outcome to be different this is not the
time to do it again.
No – It is time. We have kept qualified people out for too long.
Yes – Need to engage presbyteries who have not engaged yet.
No – Need to be open to all
Yes – Need to better understand these issues
No – I know a GLBT person and they are real people with real calls from God
Yes – Need a strong witness to Biblical standards for sexuality. We will send a shock wave through the church
No – The minority report is just a stalling tactic
Call the question and all previous questions. YAADs didn’t quite make the 2/3. Commissioners yes 74%
Debate is closed
Time of silence and Moderator’s prayer

Vote on substituting the minority report
YAADs 75% no, TSADs and MADs no; EADs Yes
Commissioners 54% no (319/375)

Motion to divide the motion ruled out of order
A bunch of parliamentary questions. Several people feeling very disenfranchised because they missed their chance to do something thinking it would come later on.

Motion to reconsider
Clerk says it should be “Appeal the ruling of the chair” – Majority vote
Point of Order: The commissioner says the vote to call the question may be reconsidered
Clerk: Either way will accomplish the same thing
Sustain the ruling of the chair: Advisory: Yes, Yes, Tie, No; Commissioners yes 56%

Question: the presbyteries still have to vote on it? The change to the BOO goes to presbyteries. The elimination of the AI’s would take place immediately

Vote on the main motion: Advisory Yes, YAADs and TSADs 67%; Commissioners 54% yes.
(The hall is quiet, and then people start heading to the restrooms.)

11:55
this action answers 05-06, 08, 11, 13 passed on voice vote

(people headed for lunch as business continues)
Item 05-14:
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 05-15:
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Items 05-16, 17: (Identical in intent)
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Thanks to committee
This concludes the committee report

Prayer

Announcement? None
Recess with prayer by a YAAD
12:02

Eleven of fifteen committees down, four more to go.

Worship after lunch. Reports resume at 2:30.
Back then

Friday morning in San Jose

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“It’s a beautiful day in the neighborhood” one of our Presbyterian colleagues used to say.

However, there may be a few dissenting votes on that one right now here at the PC(USA) General Assembly.

The weather has been nice, with the exception of the air quality. The morning news says that air quality will be bad again today, but especially bad at the other end of the Bay Area in the north that will get the smoke from the fires the worst today.

The Assembly moved through business well by the end of the day yesterday, probably more from fatigue than practice. However, by the end of the evening at 11 PM the Assembly had only covered one of the reports docketed for the evening session. The good news is that we have gotten through ten of the fifteen reporting committees. (Bills and Overtures has ongoing reports) The bad news is that most of the controversial items on social justice, peacemaking, polity, and ordination are still before us. Just for reference, the original docket has social justice as the only committee to report this morning, and then has them docketed for more time this afternoon. Get those cokes ready, it could be a long night of debate and a short night of sleep.

So what has happened so far? The big ones are that there will be no changes to what per capita can fund, the GAC and Foundation have found a way to be friends (for the moment), the Form of Government revision will be sent out to the presbyteries and studied and reworked for the next two year, the church will begin the process of reworking the Heidelberg Catechism and will begin the process of studying the Belhar confession, among other things.

The order of the day will be the election of the new Stated Clerk. There are four nominees, but as I read the tone of the commissioners I’m going to stick my neck out and say Gradye on the first ballot. But what do I know, I thought there would be debate on beginning the process for the Belhar confession.

So sit back, hold on tight, have your caffeine ready, and here we go on another fun filled day at General Assembly.

Commentary: I must add that my heart has been very heavy since the session last night. I have been praying over the two decisions made back-to-back last night that seem to skew our priorities. In the first, the Assembly could not come up with about $100,000 a year to fully staff an office to deal with preventing and healing related to clergy sexual abuse. In the second decision they set aside 20 times that amount for legal funds to help presbyteries with court cases related to churches leaving the PC(USA). I’m sorry for the rant, but I’m truly wrestling with how I interpret to my congregation that almost $1 of their GA per capita contribution will go to these legal fees! that we could not find the money for the first, but will ask for donations for the second when there are other mission opportunities out there.

UPDATE: Looking through PC-biz and based upon the financial implications reports it looks like I got the source of funds for the $2,000,000 wrong. It looks like it will come from extra opportunity giving. I have modified my comments above accordingly.

The 218th General Assembly of the PC(USA) — Live Blogging Thursday Evening

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[My commentary will be in brackets]

FYI: Youth Advisory Delegates are now (or at the next GA) called Young Adult Advisory Delegates, YAADs.

Thursday Evening, June 26, 2008
The 218th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)

7:58 PM
[Yes, I know I’m late, but I was having a great time of fellowship at dinner and stayed a bit longer. But I made it back for the committee business.]

We have had Speakout and greetings from the ecumenical delegates from Asia.

Resume Committee 8 – Mission Coordination and Budgets
Our story so far…
Just before the dinner recess the Assembly voted, by a narrow margin, to reconsider 08-15 because a staff member’s comments after an amendment passed gave some of the commissioners second thoughts about the amendment.
The commissioners are now debating and asking about the availability of funds for congregational transformation.
Debate is closed by voice vote
We now revote on the previously approved amendment
Advisory have a split vote but YAADs and TSADs were slightly against. Commissioner vote against amendment by 58%
There are a couple of blue paddles raised. The Vice-moderator calls on one
We’ve got the words but I don’t know where it goes. The intent is to protect money that is supposed to be used only for New Church Development.
Point of order about were we not only considering the amendment? Why are we revoting on the main motion?
The minutes are being checked
[Comment on the day over on the Scribblelive blog from Stephanie: “Lets do th Hokey Pokey”]

GAMC Moderator says that the previously approved GAMC manual says that the necessary wording is already in place so this amendment is irrelevant.

Call the question and all pending questions, passed overwhelmingly on voice vote
Electronic voting: Advisory split, commissioners no 67%

Vote on the main motion: Advisory strong yes, commissioners 92% yes

8:23
Item 8-24: Budgetary and Finance Review Concerns
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 8-25: Group Wind and Hail Insurance
The committee recommends disapproval because the presbytery of origination has asked to do it instead in presbytery consultation and bring it to the 219th
Commissioners vote yes by 92%

Fourth Theme: Mission Effectiveness

Item 08-22: Create a GAC Review Committee
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 08-23: Evaluating the Standards of Review
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 08-16: Review of GAC Advisory Committees
Questions about the current review processes
Amendment about composition of the review committee.
Apparently this exactly undoes the committee action and there is a question if this should have been done as a minority report. A member of the committee says that she tried to file a minority report but was told to do it on the floor.
[The place is getting tired and punch-drunk. This evening could get long]
The question is called, passed on voice vote
Electronic vote: Advisory mostly no; Commissioners vote no by 63%
Main Motion: Advisory vote yes except for ecumenical where yes and abstain tied; commissioners yes

Bills and overtures moves that all remaining commissioner speeches this evening be one minutes
Needs 2/3 to suspend the standing rules
Advisory yes, Commissioners passes with 81%

Item 08-21: Trust relationships
This was the “shotgun wedding” of the GAMC and the Foundation over designation of funds.
Linda Valentine speaks and states this is acceptable to GAMC
Robert Leech agrees that the Foundation is on board
GAMC chair thanks committee for “being the church for them”
ACC representative in a long statement says that 08-21 is constitutionally sound

No discussion
Passed on a voice vote.

This concludes the committee report, the committee moderator thanks the committee and says they ran out of amendment forms twice.

8:54
General Assembly Nominating Committee
With 08-22 approval the Review Committee needs to be staffed
No challanges
Slate passed on voice vote

8:58
Committee 16 – Worship and Spiritual Renewal
Item 16-01: On reaffirming our common faith in Jesus Christ
No discussion
Approved on voice vote

Item 16-02: A Call to Seek God for the Spiritual Renewal of the Church
A couple of questions
No debate
Approved on voice vote

Report on how the committee worked using a communal discernment process: Experience was a mixed bag. A learning experience. Two committee members walked out and did not return. A YAAD really appreciated it. Prior orientation or training would have been helpful. A third-time commissioner said this was the least frustrating committee experience he’d had.

This concludes the report

9:09
Committee on Theological Education (That is not a commissioner committee)
Presentation of the Committee on Theological Education Award for Excellence

9:14
Committee 3 – General Assembly Procedures
Consent Agenda approved

Item 03-14: Approval of Associate Stated Clerks
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 03-07: Non-geographic presbyteries
Comments about the history of the proposal and the request for a non-geographic Korean language synod
TSAD speaks in favor of the item but urges the addition of a sunset clause.
No further debate
Passed on voice vote

Item 03-18: Continuation of Hanmi Presbytery
Comments by Committee Moderator
Same TSAD speaks in favor of a sunset clause
Committee member speaks about presbytery still having an influx of new immigrents.
Another speaker points out it is a temporary condition for congregations to transition. A continuing need for it
Amendment to add a 10 year sunset clause
Commissioner from Hanmi argues that there should be no term limit and does not need to live as a “lame duck.”
Call the question, passed on voice vote
Voice vote: Advisory against, Commissioner against
Amendment to have a sunset clause on the congregations
[Got to be honest, I don’t understand this amendment. Is it on the presbytery or the churches? And the length of the sunset clause was not specified!]
Confusing wording does not matter, amendment fails on a voice vote
Vote on the main motion: Electronic: Advisory yes by a wide margin. Commissioners yes 91%

Item 03-05: Flexible presbytery and synod membership
Committee recommends disapproval
No discussion
Committee recommendation passes on voice vote

Item 03-06: Evaluation of Synod Structure
Committee recommends disapproval
One speaker against, one clarification, One in favor because this will be part of the FOG review
Approved on voice vote

Item 03-20: Creating an office on healing from clergy sexual abuse.
View video
One commissioner who was a member of the San Francisco task force spoke about the need for healing
Another commissioner spoke about the need for resources for “alternative resolution” when a negotiated settlement is reached and there is no clear closure.
Passed on voice vote
One minute of silent prayer for the victims of abuse.

9:54
Item 03-21: Commissioner resolution about financial support for presbyteries’ legal fees on property issues
Allocate $50,000/presbytery for $2,000,000
This will increase the per capita by $0.92
Amend
ment – Add section 3 to create an extra commitment account
(people are lining up at the microphones)
Voice vote too close
Electronic: Advisory split; commissioners vote yes 60%
Debate on the main motion
One commissioner points out that they just could not spend $100,000 on healing abuse victims, has a moral problem now approving $2,000,000 on taking churches to court.
[This may be the quote of the day!]
Debate closed on a voice vote
Advisory vote is YAADs no, others yes; Commissioners 57% yes.

Item 03-09: Eliminate Mission funding in per capita by 2010
Committee recommends disapproval since no alternative plan was offered
One speaker against
Advisory delegates strongly yes, commissioners yes 82%

Item 03-08: On transferring items from the per capita to the mission budget
Committee recommends disapproval – Part of being Presbyterian is to be ecumenical
Debate about ecumenical activity
(Bruce is moving things along by suggesting calling the question)
Motion to call the question
Electronic: Advisory strongly yes; Commissioners yes 77%

Item 03-10 and 03-11:
Disapprove these items for the same reasons on 03-08
No discussion
Electronic vote: Advisory delegates strongly yes; Commissioners yes 82%

Commissioner rises to criticize the Moderator for coercing debate by suggesting calling the question

Item 03-16 Recommendation 1: GA Per Capita Proposal
No discussion
Approved on voice vote

Item 03-16 #2-6
No discussion
Approved on voice vote

Item 03-16 #7
(rattling off line item amounts. Any eyes that were not glazed over are now)
No discussion
Approve on voice vote
“The ayes are getting sleepier”

Item 03-03: Amending and suspending the standing rules
Committee recommends being approved as amended
[This is the amendment I missed so it is only amending but not suspending]
No discussion
Approved on voice vote

Item 03-22:
No discussion
Approved on a voice vote

Item 03-23: Publishing full audits
Committee recommends disapproval
Congregations need only publish that the audit has been done. For PC(USA) the full audit would be substantial
Staff says that GAC/OGA publishes audits on web sites. All others available if you want it
Amendment to publish electronically
Bruce points out that this motion is to disapprove, need to defeat this one first
Question called, passed on voice vote
Main motion passes on voice vote

Item 03-24: Amending standing rules
Committee recommends disapproval
No discussion
Committee recommendation passes on voice vote

Items for information on which the committee took final action

This concludes the committee report

(This concludes the afternoon docket.)

Bruce suggests one more committee. Motion to plow on through. Voice vote close

Committee 14 – Review of GA Permanent Committees.

Item 14-01 #1
Question about jumping around item numbers (this is a question that has been waiting a while and relates to the previous committee report)
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 14-01 #2
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 14 Recommendations 1 #1-4
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 14 Recommendation 2
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 14 Recommendation 3
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 14 Recommendation 4
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 14 Recommendation 5
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 14 Report #3 Recommendation #1
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 14 Report #3 Recommendation #2
Question where to find it on PC-biz?
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

There was a lot of confusion if this can be found on PC-biz
None of us in the gallery could find it.

about 500 motions to recess. About the same number of seconds
Closing prayer
Recessed – Back in the morning

The 218th General Assembly of the PC(USA) — Live Blogging Thursday Afternoon

The GA Junkie

The Politics of Presbyterianism

Monthly Archives: June 2008

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The 218th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (USA) — Quality of Media Coverage of Ordination Standards

The 218th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (USA) — GA Summary Sheet

The 218th General Assembly of the PC(USA) — Live Blogging Saturday 2 Morning

The 218th General Assembly of the PC(USA) — Live Blogging Friday Evening

The 218th General Assembly of the PC(USA) — Live Blogging Friday Afternoon

The 218th General Assembly of the PC(USA) — Live Blogging Friday Morning

Friday morning in San Jose

The 218th General Assembly of the PC(USA) — Live Blogging Thursday Evening

The 218th General Assembly of the PC(USA) — Live Blogging Thursday Afternoon