Greetings — I will be live blogging most plenary sessions of the PC(USA)
General Assembly.  I apologize to those with e-mail feeds or a feed
reader since you will probably only get the first section of the post
since I’ll be adding updates throughout the session.  Also, if you are
reading this on a browser live you will also need to refresh the screen
since I don’t have push technology on my blog.  It’s tough being Web
1.99999 in a Web 2.0 world.  Thanks for your patience.

This is not the only source on the web for this event.
The PC(USA) official webcast can be found at http://www.pcusa.org/ga218/schedule/streaming-schedule.htm
There is also a live blogging site at http://www.scribblelive.com/Event/PCUSA_General_Assembly_218
I have gotten feedback that this second link may cause trouble on some systems and it is being looked into.  Sorry about that

[My commentary will be in brackets]

From this morning’s worship:  The preacher, the Rev. Dan Chun, talked about walking humbly with God.  One of the things he said was the strongest thing his elders could say was “I’m probably right, but I might be wrong.”

Friday Evening, June 27, 2008
The 218th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)

Following worship

Today is mostly formalities.  They don’t want any unpredictable business to hold up adjournment

9:32 AM — Meeting reconvened with song and prayer by a YAAD
[Well done, she has gifts and great future.]

9:36 — Bills and Overtures
Minutes for Wednesday approved.  Other minutes and protests will be reviewed later by Committee members.

9:38 — General Assembly Procedures
Final financial implications – New spending 2008 $53,330, 2009 $341,385, 2010 $118,595.
Motion to set per capita at $6.15 for 2009 and 2010 approved on voice vote

9:42 — Mission Coordination and Budget
Final financial implications – Have GAMC make the necessary adjustments in the budget.  Approved on voice vote

9:47 — COLA for the 219th (2010) General Assembly brings greetings and invitation
Entertaining video about the Twin Cities Area.  [Twin Cities are warmer in July than San Jose.  No surprise.  Mark Twain said “The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco.”]

10:00 — Introduction of General Assembly Council and the Committee on the Office of the General Assembly
Introductions being done

10:05 — Thank you to the Local Arrangements Committee
From a commissioner and a YAAD
From the Office of the General Assembly
Thanks from the COLA Moderator and Vice-moderator and recognition of several individuals and artists

10:15 — Co-Moderators of the YAAD Caucus
Gifts presented to the Moderator of the General Assembly:  A stole signed by all the YAADs, cards to read during travels, and a step-stool signed and saying “To support you and help lift you up.”  Watch and cards for the Vice-moderator, and a pen for the new Stated Clerk.

10:19 — Recognition by Cliff of the platform staff who handle the logistics and behind the scenes stuff.
Recognition of the GA staff including resource people and committee staff.

10:24 — Announcements from the State Clerk

10:25 — Personal word from Cliff.  “Its been a good run.”  Gratitude to all for the experience

10:26 — Final word from Gradye Parsons “The only way that any of us are in the church is because of God’s action.”
And, to Cliff, “Thank you mister Stated Clerk.”  One last standing ovation for Cliff

10:28 — From Bruce “Final words as desired” — Thanks for your support and I look forward to working with all of you the next two years.

10:29 — Closing service of worship

10:45 — The 218th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) is adjourned and is dissolved upon the convening of the 219th General Assembly on July 3, 2010

Thanks for the privilege of sharing this.  I have a bunch of comments I’ll try to get shaped in the next couple of weeks.

 Go in peace.  Amen.

Greetings — I will be live blogging most plenary sessions of the PC(USA)
General Assembly.  I apologize to those with e-mail feeds or a feed
reader since you will probably only get the first section of the post
since I’ll be adding updates throughout the session.  Also, if you are
reading this on a browser live you will also need to refresh the screen
since I don’t have push technology on my blog.  It’s tough being Web
1.99999 in a Web 2.0 world.  Thanks for your patience.

This is not the only source on the web for this event.
The PC(USA) official webcast can be found at http://www.pcusa.org/ga218/schedule/streaming-schedule.htm
There is also a live blogging site at http://www.scribblelive.com/Event/PCUSA_General_Assembly_218
I have gotten feedback that this second link may cause trouble on some systems and it is being looked into.  Sorry about that

[My commentary will be in brackets]

Observations from the day:
There appears to be significant confusion and skepticism over the $2 million allocated for legal expenses.  I have talked to several people through out the day who read my comments and correction who thought the same thing, that GA had left it to come out of per capita.  When I’m confused I’m glad to know that I am not alone.  But the second thing people immediately say is “If it is coming out of extra opportunity giving they will never get the money for that.”  We will see.

Regarding the action to send G-6.0106b back to the congregations:  There is an under current of opinion from several individuals on all sides of the issue who are active in the church that I have talked to throughout the afternoon that this really is not a good time to open up this debate.  While they respect the faithfulness of the GA in discerning God’s will, from the point of view of where presbyteries are with the “conversation” following the PUP report, this is too early to reopen this question.  I hope that in my presbytery the groundwork that has been laid will support us as we have this conversation and that we will do it respectfully.

Finally, my own opinion on where we sit with business.  The report of Committee 4 was arrested in the middle of debate on the definition of marriage.  It was recessed ten minutes early.  While many were ready for a break, I think that in that remaining ten, maybe fifteen minutes, the business item could have been wrapped up.

Friday Evening, June 27, 2008
The 218th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)

7:32 PM — Meeting reconvened with prayer by a TSAD

7:36 — Return to the debate on item 04-08

For reference, here is the earlier work on 04-08:

Debate continues
Enough damage done to the church today, we don’t need more
Love your neighbor as yourself
The committee worked hard, accept the work of the committee
Carl Mazza speaks for the substitute motion on principle
“If you want to completely shatter this denomination vote for that amendment” – Marj Carpenter [not one of the people I spoke to earlier but the same sentiment]
In light of what we have done earlier today we should make the polity consistent
Don’t push churches beyond tipping point, “love mercy”
Church should not let this issue get ahead of it, don’t be late to recognize it again
[YAAD mentions Constitutional right to pursuit of happiness.  Besides being sketchy theology, that is not a Constitutional right but is in the Declaration of Independence.]
Do we want this denomination to have the appearance of being hateful and attacking a minority? [Our gallery looked at each other saying that comment was harsh and unfair.  I did not quote in full or verbatim.]

Motion to call the question:  Approved on voice vote

Shall the substitute motion become the main motion?
Advisory all vote no, most by a small margin;  Commissioners no 80%

More debate
Move the question:  Electronic: Advisory yes by a wide margin; Commissioners yes 94%
Main motion: slightly yes; Commissioners yes 77%
A YAAD took Bruce to task for not calling on an equal number of YAADs for and against.  According to the YAAD he called on a highly different number of YAADs.

Item 04-13: Equal rights for Families of Same-gender partners
Debate
Amendment that I think tries to incorporate parts of similar item 04-12.
Amendment passes by electronic vote
Amendment to include “theological balance” on the task force
Amendment passes on voice vote, but close and not challenged
Voice vote appears to pass but division of the house
Point of order:  That there is a confusion of language and the amendments appear to have a problem
The back room is fixing it up.
Gradye – “Sometimes the best way to go forward is to go backwards.”  Redo the amendment
Vote again on “Theological Balance” – Passes on voice vote.
Main motion, again: Electronic: Advisory yes, most by a wide margin; Commissioners yes 76%

Item 04-12 answer with 04-13 approved on voice vote

Item 04-16:
No discussion
Passes on voice vote

Item 04-17:
No discussion
Passes on voice vote

Item 04-28: Commissioner Resolution:  On urging a gracious, pastoral response to churches requesting dismissal from the PC(USA)
Robert Austell, the commissioner who signed it, spoke in favor of being gracious
Already addressed in 07-13? ACC says that was procedural, this is pastoral
Note that legal issues are complicated and this item is difficult when the church initiates the civil legal action.
Some are saying the churches initiated 33 or the 39 cases, another says 37 times the churches initiated it.
Amendment to strike “Believing that… litigation is deadly to the cause of Christ”
Amendment fails on voice vote; Division of the house: Advisory split, slightly yes; Commissioners no 56%
Debate continues
leave the PC(USA) but leave the keys with those who want to stay
Call the question: passed on voice vote
Electronic:  Advisory yes by a strong margin; Commissioners yes 76%

Information item votes of the presbyteries.

This concludes the report of the Church Polity Committee

Point of order:  From Roberts Rules of Order page 1062: A motion can be divided even after the motion to call the question has been moved.
Cliff – I may not have been clear but at that particular point we were in the middle of the vote and it was not in order

Motion to reconsider 05-09:
Strong debate about fairness, the hour, and people having left.
Call the question: Advisory strong yes; Commissioners yes 97%
Vote to reconsider: Advisory strong no; Commissioners no 52%

Point of Order:  We are calling each other names and questioning integrity

Committee 9 — Social Justice Issues
Consent agenda approved with one item pulled

Item 09-06 as amended:
Committee added homeschooling as an education option
Approved on voice vote

Item 09-07:
Amendment to add a request to forgo a meal a week to donate to a food program
Amendment to the amendment to add “if one is able” to forgoing a meal
Call the question: Passed on voice vote
Amendment to the amendment passed on voice vote
Amendment passed on voice vote

Main motion: Passed on voice vote

9:15
Item 09-04:
Presentation on the PDA response to Katrina
Amendment to recognize PDA working with local congregations
Amendment passed on voice vote
No more discussion
Passes on voice vote

Item 09-15:
No discussion
Approved on voice vote

Item 09-05 as amended:  On Addressing the Tragedy of America’s Gun Violence
Amendment to substitute “magazines” for “clips” – Use correct terminology; strike section 5 since it is already is the law of the land
Discussion on amendment that section 5 address local not federal law
Voice vote too close to call; Electronic: Advisory generally yes; Commissioners yes 72%
Main motion: Advisory strong yes; Commissioners yes 84%

Item 09-14 as amended: Lift every voice — Voting rights
No discussion
Approved on voice vote

Item 09-09: Social Creed for the 21st Century
Minority report – study it and bring it back to the 219th

No amendments: the main motion is perfected

No amendments: the minority report is perfected
[And the commissioners, like me, are getting too tired to work well]

Question about financial implications for the minority report?  No implications since much initial work is already done.

Shall the minority report become the main motion?
Debate about stalling and the fact that most in the church are not familiar with this yet.
Motion to call the question passes on voice vote
Vote on the substitute motion becoming the main motion.
Electronic: Advisory mostly no; Commissioners no 60%
One speaker for that Bruce has to silence forcefully running over time with other commissioners supporting Bruce
No speakers against so the question is called and approved by voice vote
Main motion: Advisory generally yes; Commissioners yes 83%

Item 09-11:
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 09-21: Immigration laws
A couple of speakers in favor
Passed on voice vote

10:00 [If you can’t tell my blogging is getting slower and less informative with the second late evening in a row]
Item 09-20
Question about effectiveness and evaluation
No more discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 09-10 as amended:
Debate
Chemical engineer says that report is technically solid
Item passes on voice vote

Item 09-08: Pay equity
Amendment to extend this to Presbyterian Colleges, Universities, and Schools
Comment from the clerk that we can encourage but have no way to enforce since they are independent entities
Call the question passed by voice vote
Amendment passes on voice vote
No discussion
Main motion as amended passes on voice vote

Item 09-13:  Singing new songs to God
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 09-16:
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 09-12: Study the status of women at all levels in the PC(USA)
Question – look at financial implications
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Minutes review was in order

We have a two minute video and it will take you at least that long to debate it.
Approved to watch the video

This concludes the report of the committee

10:23
We are in the home stretch of the evening.  One committee left.
Three minute break

[Report that at one point the Scribble blog for GA218 was 4% of the whole Scribble activity.  Who else would be on Scribble late on a Friday night.]

Committee 10 – Health Issues

Item 10-02:
No discussion
Approved on voice vote

Item 10-01 be answered by 10-02 approved on a voice vote

Item 10-03: Advocating both sides of the abortion issue
Minority report has been withdrawn
Amendment – To clarify wording that this applies to problem pregnancies and not reproductive options more broadly
Debate
Motion to divide the amendment:  Advisory vote split; Commissioners no 313 to 315
Amendment fails on voice vote
Division of the house: Advisory no; Commissioners no 67%
Debate includes reference to current abortion policy
Can this be combined with human sexuality material? No, different topics
Why does this take $100,000 to print four pamphlets?  It needs to be fair and balanced
Amendment to include these resources with the previously approved Human Sexuality Resources
Saves money but very different material and target audience
11:00 [You are getting sleepy…Very sleepy]
Call the question and all previous questions: Approved by voice vote
Vote on amendment: Fails on voice vote
Main motion: Voice vote too close to call; Electronic: Advisory yes, except for EADs; Commissioners yes 72%

Item 10-04 be answered by 10-03 approved on voice vote

Item 10-05: A policy statement on serious mental illness
Amendment to strike commissioned lay pastors from CPE training, not all presbyteries have CPE easily accessible
Amendment fails on voice vote; Division of the house: Advisory no; Commissioners no 69%
Debate
Do you expect me to do my job as a pastor if I have to do all these things.  Can it pared down to 50 recommendations
These are not requirements, these are “urge” and “encourage” items
How does administering ordination exams relate to serious mental illness?  Individuals with serious mental illness may be candidates – have reasonable accommodation
Amendment – Encourage CLP’s to complete CPE
Motion to call the question and all previous questions:  Passed on voice vote
Vote on the amendment: Fails on voice vote
Main motion:  Passed on voice vote

11:19 [About 80 stalwarts in the observer section with me]

Item 10-06: Supporting single payer health care reform
Minority report – Right to health care, eliminate single payer

No amendments for main motion:  Declared perfected
No amendments for substitute motion:  Declared perfected

Shall the substitute motion become the main motion?
Debate
Single payer not a good system, talk to Canadians
The committee worked hard, the minority report has very little committee support
My wife is a physician, Medicare is broken
Move to call the question and all previous questions: Passed by voice vote

Shall the substitute motion become the main motion?
Electronic: Advisory strongly no;  Commissioners no 60%
(There is one Ecumenical delegate sticking this out.  They get a round of applause.)

Main motion: Advisory yes; Commissioners yes 59%

Thanks to everyone for sticking this out
This concludes the report of the committee

Bruce “Apologies to any of you who had midnight in the pool”
[I was well past midnight in my prediction. Wrong again]
Announcements

Two committee meetings now: General Assembly Procedures and Mission Coordination and Budgets to finish up the budgets.

11:34  The General Assembly recesses with prayer by the Rev. Robert Austell

See you in the morning

Greetings — I will be live blogging most plenary sessions of the PC(USA)
General Assembly.  I apologize to those with e-mail feeds or a feed
reader since you will probably only get the first section of the post
since I’ll be adding updates throughout the session.  Also, if you are
reading this on a browser live you will also need to refresh the screen
since I don’t have push technology on my blog.  It’s tough being Web
1.99999 in a Web 2.0 world.  Thanks for your patience.

This is not the only source on the web for this event.
The PC(USA) official webcast can be found at http://www.pcusa.org/ga218/schedule/streaming-schedule.htm
There is also a live blogging site at http://www.scribblelive.com/Event/PCUSA_General_Assembly_218
I have gotten feedback that this second link may cause trouble on some systems and it is being looked into.  Sorry about that

[My commentary will be in brackets]

Friday Afternoon, June 27, 2008
The 218th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)

The afternoon opened with worship including a gospel choir from the area

2:35 PM — The meeting is gaveled to order and opened with prayer by an ecumenical delegate from the Philippines

2:37 — Greetings from the ecumenical delegates from Latin America

Committee 11 – Peacemaking and International Issues
Consent Agenda Approved

Item 11-32: Commissioner Resolution on Emergency Food Aid to North Korea
Ask to show a 5 minute video, Vice-moderator tells them to make it 3 minutes
Some discussion, especially will food aid make it and that this is a political problem
Passed on voice vote

Item 11-15 as amended: Support the Presbyterian Church in Zimbabwe
Prayer from a church representative of the church, especially considering the elections there today
Some discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 11-18 as amended: Report on Human Rights in Columbia
Prayer from a church representative of the church
Amendment from the floor.  The clerk suggests that it would be better as two amendments.  The mover agrees since it will give him two chances to speak.
First amendment to strike section on “withholding military support”
Debate on the amendment: Progress of government versus desire for development instead of military aid
Voice vote no clear, Electronic: Advisory no; Commissioners no 75%

Second amendment that tries to emphasize the Columbia Free Trade Agreement and the negative role of the FARC
Debate on amendment
Leadership comment that it was their intention to have balanced comment
Voice vote fails, division of the house
Electronic: Advisory clearly no, including 100% ecumenical; Commissioners no 73%

Vote on the main motion:  Advisory strongly yes; Commissioners yes 77%

Item 11-21 be answered by 11-18
Electronic:  Advisory strongly yes; Commissioners yes 88%

Item 11-22:
No discussion
Vote by hand passes

Item 11-01: On Peace and Justice in Palestine and Israel
For – We can not be neutral in the face of injustice

Amendment – Delete Item 2 – Endorsing the Amman Call
This puts us in the position of endorsing one side in the conflict.
Staff points out that the Amman Call came out of the Christian churches in the region
Debate on bias versus prophetic voice
Move to call the question: Approved by voice vote
Electronic on the amendment: Advisory no; Commissioners no 61%

[Lunch is taking it toll and I’m ready for a nap]

Vote on the main motion: Advisory strongly yes; Commissioners yes 74%

Items 11-03 and 11-04 be answered by 11-01
No discussion
Approved on voice vote

Item 11-06: Voices for victims of violence in Israel and Palestine
No discussion
Approved on voice vote

Item 11-25: Be answered by 11-06
No discussion
Approved on voice vote

Item 11-28:
No discussion
Approved on voice vote

Item 11-26: On Middle East Peacemaking
Minority report
Item 11-26 is at odds with 11-01.  Minority report would put 11-26 in accord with 11-01, in fact it would just have 11-26 answered by 11-01

Commissioner points out that on 11-01 they moved quickly from the vote on the amendment to the vote on the main motion [they did]

Perfecting the main motion
Commissioner confusion about what is going on
Make that lots of commissioner confusion
Amendment to strike last paragraph because it is out of the purview of the GAC
[I missed what happened here to take care of some other business]
The main motion is declared perfected

The minority report is declared perfected

Shall the substitute motion be substituted for the main motion?
Vigorous debate
Move the question on this and all pending items
Cliff reminds them that there will be no more debate on this item
Debate closed on voice vote
Vote on substitute:  Advisory vote yes; Commissioners yes 60%
The minority report becomes the main motion

Vote on the main motion: Advisory vote yes by a wide margin; Commissioners vote yes 72%

Item 11-02:
Committee recommends disapproval
No discussion
Committee recommendation passes on hand vote

Item 11-07:
Committee recommends disapproval
No discussion
Committee recommendation passes on hand vote

4:31
Item 11-09
No discussion
Passes on voice vote

Item 11-11:
No discussion
Passes on voice vote

Item 11-17:
No discussion
Passes on voice vote

Item 11-10:  On building peace in Iraq
Minority report

Perfecting the main motion
Amendment to restore recommendation 5 – Original intent of overture was to make a statement about getting out of Iraq.  The majority report rewrote it and watered it down.  The minority report would water it down even further.
Debate: Member of committee expressed that the committee rewrote it because they felt the section was very one-sided and they wanted to restore balance.
Vote on amendment – electronic:  Advisory split, YAADs strongly no; Commissioners no 67%

Amendment – Change this from a spirit of “sorrow and confession” and replace with “humility”
Statement from mover but no other discussion
Voice vote too close, Electronic:  Advisory yes, most by only a little; Commissioners yes 69%

4:48
Amendment – Restoring to the majority report sections 5, 6, 7, and 8 that were struck by the committee
Motion to move all the previous questions.  Can not move that, only the current question because of nature of the substitute motion.
Debate closed on voice vote
Question asking to clarify the amendment
Electronic:  Advisory very close and split; Commissioners yes 61%

The main motion is perfected as amended

There is a motion to amend.  “It is out of order” “But I’ve been here a long time” “A motion to reconsider would be in order” “I move to reconsider”
Vote to reconsider:  Electronic: Advisory strongly no; Commissioners no 80%

The main motion is still perfected

Perfect the substitute motion
No amendments
The minority report is perfected

Shall the minority report become the main motion?
Debate:
Most Americans want out, don’t pull out and leave a power vacuum like Vietnam
Move the previous question?
Vote to substitute the minority report for the main motion:  Electronic: Advisory generally no; Commissioners no 58%

Final vote on main motion:  Advisory yes; Commissioners yes 76%

5:07
Motion to arrest the report of the committee.  Get some of the controversial stuff earlier
Committee moderator says that we are very close to the end of the committee report.
Motion to arrest fails on a vote by hand

Item 11-10 answer 11-08, 11-20, 11-24 passes on voice vote

Item 11-27: Report on MRTI
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 11-29:  Answered by 11-27
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 11-23: On divestment from Caterpill
ar and Motorola
Committee moves disapproval
Debate
Motion to call the question, passes on voice vote
Committee report passes on voice vote

Item 11-33 as amended: Commissioner Resolution on Peace with Iran
Amendment from the floor: Need to have the report communicated if it is to have impact so send it to the President
Amendment passes on voice vote
Another amendment made and withdrawn that would just do editorial work
Amendment passes on voice vote

The Peacemaking Program gives each commissioner and delegate a Liberian Cross.

This concludes the report of the Peacemaking Committee

Bruce resumes moderating.  One minute to stretch as you feel called
5:24
Twelve committees down, Three to go.

Committee 4 – Church Polity
Consent Agenda approved, including new status for several congregations to keep in your prayers

Item 04-01 as amended: Replacing “sympathy” with “empathy” for the deacons
Committee recommends “concern”
No discussion
Passes on voice vote

Item 04-02 as amended: Membership vows
No discussion
Passes on voice vote

Item 04-03: Accounting practices
Committee recommends disapproval with comment
No discussion
The committee recommendation passes on voice vote

Item 04-04: On meetings of the congregation and absentee voting
Committee recommends disapproval with comment
One speaker speaks in favor emphasizes “active” member
Committee recommendation passes on voice vote

Item 04-06 as amended:  Writing PJC decisions
A GAPJC member urges disapproval
No further discussion
Committee recommendation fails on voice vote
Motion to disapprove 04-06 made and passes on voice vote

Item 04-07:
No discussion
Passes on voice vote

Item 04-08 with comment: The definition of marrage
(Committee Moderator begins reading and then says that she has the wrong script)
Substitute motion from the floor: Assembly approve the original overture 04-08

No amendments to the main motion: the main motion is perfected

No amendments to the substitute motion:  The substitute motion is perfected

Shall the substitute motion become the main motion?
(lines forming at the microphones)
The committee worked hard and this is not the time for another controversy
Need to recognize loving relationships
Jesus taught against it
Homosexuality is a natural construct

Motion to recess for dinner (in the middle of debate: Advisory yes, except MAD no; Commissioners yes 89%

Announcements
Prayer for dinner
Back at 7:30 PST

Greetings — I will be live blogging most plenary sessions of the PC(USA)
General Assembly.  I apologize to those with e-mail feeds or a feed
reader since you will probably only get the first section of the post
since I’ll be adding updates throughout the session.  Also, if you are
reading this on a browser live you will also need to refresh the screen
since I don’t have push technology on my blog.  It’s tough being Web
1.99999 in a Web 2.0 world.  Thanks for your patience.

This is not the only source on the web for this event.
The PC(USA) official webcast can be found at http://www.pcusa.org/ga218/schedule/streaming-schedule.htm
There is also a live blogging site at http://www.scribblelive.com/Event/PCUSA_General_Assembly_218

[My commentary will be in brackets]

Friday Morning, June 27, 2008
The 218th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)

8:20 AM
The activity in the whole conference center is significantly slower than other mornings.  It was a night long on business and short on sleep and it shows.  The tables for corresponding members are almost empty.  There are still a lot of empty seats at the commissioner area.  And the observer gallery is pretty sparse.

8:33 — We are gaveled to order and opened with prayer by the ecumenical delegate from Canada

8:35 — Bills and Overtures reports and proposes the docket for the day.  They also move to make commissioner speeches one minute.  Commissioners rise to ask that if they have to have shorter time that platform presentations also be limited.

Motion from the floor to reconsider the docket.  (That is a first for me.)
Voice vote close; Fails electronically, not really that close

8:42 — Still lots of commissioners filing in.  They are missing this excitement

Advisory delegate suggests 90 seconds for speeches since that is the only substantial input they have since they have no vote.

Move the previous question

Suggestion to limit speakouts to 5 minutes, Bruce thinks the will of the body is no speakouts.  A voice vote confirms that.

Motion to approve minutes.

Concludes the report of the committee

8:46
Per capita budget implications:  [The legal reimbursement money does not seem to be in there.  I’m not sure what is up with it then.  I misunderstood the results from last night.  The extra commitment opportunity fund was approved.]
Mission budget implications:

8:53 — Election of the Stated Clerk

Speak in order of nomination
Gradye Parsons:  It is about gifts given to and by people.  People who have used their gifts to serve the church.  Stories about faithful Presbyterians who used their gifts in the service of the church and the world.
The future of the church matters to him.  That is why he is standing for stated clerk. (Finished with almost a minute and a half of his time left.) [Nicely delivered.  Story telling style. Familiar but not lively.]

Ed Koster:  For the last two years has been discerning his call.  Has heard the church say they want a stated clerk where connectionalism is about relationship.  Who is even handed.  Who has everyone at the table of discernment.  Who will advocate for the poor and oppressed and fight racism.
Comes with experience and a grassroots view of the church.  A theological background. Boldness.
Conflict is not necessarily bad.  It indicates we are diverse and hold strong views.  Can lead to beneficial change.
Time for new eyes and new perspective.  Time to set a new course to do mission and ministry rather than fight over it.  Jesus Christ is alive and well in the PC(USA).
[Good speech.  Lively and engaging.]

William Tarbell:  Four dimensions of the stated clerk’s office.  Operational duties.  Uses a systems analysis approach to address issues.  [I think he just turned a lot of people off with “systems analysis”]  Promotion and education to speak to the church:  Experienced and even handed.  Ecumenical tasks:  Experienced, has done mission work around the world.  Pastoral: Heard a story about John Knox — Two teenagers who asked John Knox what to do with their lives?  “Turn your lives to the church.”  In our lives together we need to “love one another.”

Charles “Casey” Jones:  Have a funny name.  We Presbyterians have a funny name too.  As a child he thought all the other churches had funny names.  Stated Clerk needs to be a spiritual leader.  Permeate OGA with prayer.  Will do what the Book of Order says in an even handed manner.  Seek to narrow distance between local churches and Louisville.  Bring the OGA a heart and mind that will always ask how does what we do affect people at the local level.  Need to be connected and rooted in Jesus Christ.  It is the name of Jesus Christ who unites us.
[Good speech, well delivered, engaging. On topic and understandable.  That will help him greatly.  It may now be between Jones and Parsons.  We will see.]

Q&A
1)  How will you keep faith with a GA to communicate decisions with which you may disagree
Parsons: It is the duty of the Stated Clerk.  Will be diligent and faithful to what GA asks him to say
Koster:  As Presbytery Stated Clerk has had to do it and has done it faithfully.  Will continue to do
Tarbell:  The stated clerk is your servant.  Communications should be with care, accuracy and objectivity
Jones:  Stated clerk supports the GA whether you agree or not.  Agree with Bill that the clerk is your servant.

2)  Area most needed in international outreach
Koster:  Expand outreach to wider circle of churches and other interfaith groups
Tarbell: Develop extensive contacts with international brothers and sisters.  OGA not the only international presence in the PC(USA)
Jones:  Try to speak their language. They will do more for us than we will do for them.  Cross-pollinate.
Parsons:  There are over 700 reformed body on this planet.  We have a lot to learn from them.  Not just maintain ecumenical relationships but transform them.

3)  Last year the PC(USA) lost over 57,000 members, but most Hispanics know nothing of the Presbyterian Church.
Tarbell: Need to relate and generate enthusiasm (no specifics given)
Jones: Local presbytery encourages churches to have Christian groups meet there even if not Presbyterian.  Need appropriate flexibility like commissioned lay pastors.
Parsons:  Need to develop welcoming spirit to all visiting our churches.  Hispanics facing issues we can help address.
Koster:  There are plenty of connections with other groups we could develop.  Become a member of Christian Churches Together.
[Jones has been great about addressing back to the questioner.  Tarbell picked that up this question.]

4) Where do the candidates stand on the authority of Scripture and its applicability to today?
Jones:  It is an ordination vow.  Need to be congruent with the Jesus of scripture.  But our confessions form a big tent.  Need to recognize Jesus in our world today.
Parsons:  God’s great gift to us and should be our starting place.  The Book reads us as we read it.  Wrestling and struggling with God.
Koster: “I believe in Scripture.  All of it.”  What we tend to do is pick our favorite Scriptures and quote it all the time.  Rarely seen someone who rejects authority of Scripture.  It is the interpretation where we differ.
Tarbell:  “Scripture is God’s song.”  It is Holy and God’s Word and we will all have different points of view.  But taking the ordination vow we have all taken God’s song.

5)  Reflect on somewhere you might of failed and how it helped prepare you for this office.
Parsons:  “My mother is watching so I need to be careful.”  A number of years ago he had to “clerk” the call for a called GA
.  Hauled to the GAPJC because of it.  Learned to be transparent in what we do.
Koster:  Relationships with African Americans not as good as it could be in his presbytery.  Not as good as it could be.  Regrets that.  [Did not answer the application part of the question]
Tarbell: As a brand new pastor he got a call from a staff member that described symptoms that were red flags.  He was not proactive but referred her to counseling.  A couple of weeks later she ended her life.  Learned about the necessity of being proactive and pastoral.
Jones:  Sometimes God only gets your attention through pain.  He had an agenda for one of his churches and he pushed it too hard. Has developed two parts to his congregation over worship style.  Wait for the leading of the Holy Spirit

6)  How would you direct the nFOG to the next GA?
Koster:  This will require a great amount of study.  It could use testing but that overture rejected.  Will require a great deal of work.
Tarbell:  Has concerns.  Also not sure that two years will be enough.  Stated clerk can not stop it from coming back in two years, that is decided.  But a chance to find out who we are as Presbyterians.
Jones:  Shows a desire for a “breath of fresh air” to blow through the church. [Nice subtle push for new leadership]  I believe that if something is truly of God it keeps coming back.  Time is our friend not our enemy.
Parsons:  Need to read the current one and then engage the nFOG.  Like the “before and after” diet picture about what we would ideally like to be.  Need to let the Spirit work with us.  That can be scary.  Need to nail down “missional” theology.

7)  Our internal struggles has led to blind spots.  How would you address and change that?
Tarbell:  Could not agree more.  “When elephants fight the grass gets hurt.”  We have blind spots to mission and our spirituality.  The OGA needs to encourage due process to allow us to share together.
Jones: What are our children and grandchildren going to say about our blind spots.  Spoiling environment and global poverty.  OGA – Communion of the Saints include both the rest of the world as well as those before us.  Need to connect in confessions.
Parsons:  Those who disagree do agree on some things, and they fight because they have a hope for the church and what it can be.  Can not see the Christ in each other.  Need to come at these disagreements in different, fresh ways.
Koster:  Need a full view of what is around us.  Blind spots blind us from mission at our door.  We focus on who we are not the world around us.

8) There is fear about what is going to happen in the future of the church.
Jones:  “Fear not.”  As Christians we should not be afraid.  But there are things that should concern us.  Need to get into the love of Jesus.  [Didn’t really answer the question]
Parsons:  Every church has fear of not succeeding or driving people away.  But we are called to be the church and focus on Jesus because it is His church.  Where is our faith?  Get in the boat, go across the lake, there will be a storm, you will not die.
Koster:  Fear because it feels like we are coming unglued.  We have a great tradition and traditions and a great polity.  Sometimes these things don’t bring us together when they should.  Not getting along is also part of our tradition.
Tarbell:  Fear is our most destructive enemy.  Can rob us of faith.  The clerk needs to instill trust and confidence in those around us.  No thief can be successful in the face of Jesus Christ.

9)  In the midst of our divided and polarized church will you create an environment where they are respected and valued.
Parsons:  With 2.3 million people one person can not do it.  That is a people job for all of us.  Example of working together is the FOG Task Force who were people chosen that they can fight.  Need to remember that Jesus brings us together.
Koster:  We are not called to win, we are called to discern.  Need an orderly debate that gives respect to every individual.  It is the quality of the discussion and debate that we have.  Need to talk to each other.  Can begin it right now.
Tarbell:  Contact every interest group in the church and have them designate a contact person for the OGA. Need to be moments among us when we rise up and shake the hand of the persons around us and say “God bless you.”
Jones:  Like a kairos moment.  Talks about his experience of relationship with other congregations around them, one more conservative, one more liberal.

The Q&A time is over.
[I will have to back off my earlier assessment.  Based on the Q&A I think this is too close to call between Gradye and Casey.]

First Ballot
All advisory strongly for Parsons

Gradye Parsons is elected on the first ballot
Parsons: 405 votes, 57%
Jones: 176 votes, 25%
Koster: 110 votes, 15%
Tarbell: 21 votes, 3%

[I should not have made that comment above and I would have looked like a genius.]

With the usual light-show Gradye reenter the hall to applause

Service of installation.

Comments by Gradye including thanks to the other three.

10:36 — Two minute stretch

10:42 — Committee 5 – Church Orders and Ministry
Item 05-03:  Models of examination procedures
Passes

Item 05-18 answered by this passes

Prayer and singing before the controversial issues

Item 05-12: Authoritative Interpretation of G-6.0108 for proper application
The debate begins
This is a backdoor way to change the constitution
This allows us to keep together
Question about what this does to the Bush decision.  The clerk is only fielding process questions.  Defers to the ACC about constitutional questions.  ACC says that it should accomplish intent.  But will need to be tested
TSAD raises question about “partitioning the church” where his ordination may not be recognized by every presbytery.
Restores historic principle to disagree on non-essentials.  At the present time one standard raised above others
Imposes “red-state/blue-state mindset”
Call the question – Passes on voice vote
Vote on the main motion, Electronic: YAADs and MADs very close, TSADs strongly yes, EADs strongly no; Commissioners 53% yes
[I don’t have the numbers, but I think the YAADs were closer than that.]

Other items be answered by 05-12
05-01, 02, 04, 05, 07, 10
Passed on voice vote

Item 05-09 with comment:  Substituting a new paragraph for G-6.0106b
Minority Report
11:13
The church has not had time to live with the PUP report and the study guides.  Give the church more time to work with the process of discussion, understanding, and trust.  A new study guide was issued in early 2008.

Perfecting the main motion
Amendment to delete item 2 – The past AI’s are rendered moot
Debate on the amendment
Called the question on voice vote
Vote on the amendment: all no to varying degrees; Commissioners no 63%
Main motion is perfected

Perfecting the minority report
Can I ask a question about the main motion?  Bruce “You can start”
Question to the minority committee about their numbers.  They based some numbers on the number of Presbyteries that submitted overtures.  [False assumption in my opinion.  You can consider the issue without submitting an overture.]
Minority report is perfected

Shall the minority report become the main motion?
Yes – the people in the pews are not ready yet
No – We have discussed this too long already
Yes – The process of the discussion causes problems.  Unless we expect the outcome to be different this is not the
time to do it again.
No – It is time.  We have kept qualified people out for too long.
Yes – Need to engage presbyteries who have not engaged yet.
No – Need to be open to all
Yes – Need to better understand these issues
No – I know a GLBT person and they are real people with real calls from God
Yes – Need a strong witness to Biblical standards for sexuality.  We will send a shock wave through the church
No – The minority report is just a stalling tactic
Call the question and all previous questions.  YAADs didn’t quite make the 2/3.  Commissioners yes 74%
Debate is closed
Time of silence and Moderator’s prayer

Vote on substituting the minority report
YAADs 75% no, TSADs and MADs no; EADs Yes
Commissioners 54% no (319/375)

Motion to divide the motion ruled out of order
A bunch of parliamentary questions.  Several people feeling very disenfranchised because they missed their chance to do something thinking it would come later on.

Motion to reconsider
Clerk says it should be “Appeal the ruling of the chair” – Majority vote
Point of Order: The commissioner says the vote to call the question may be reconsidered
Clerk: Either way will accomplish the same thing
Sustain the ruling of the chair:  Advisory: Yes, Yes, Tie, No; Commissioners yes 56%

Question: the presbyteries still have to vote on it?  The change to the BOO goes to presbyteries.  The elimination of the AI’s would take place immediately

Vote on the main motion:  Advisory Yes, YAADs and TSADs 67%; Commissioners 54% yes.
(The hall is quiet, and then people start heading to the restrooms.)

11:55
this action answers 05-06, 08, 11, 13 passed on voice vote

(people headed for lunch as business continues)
Item 05-14:
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 05-15:
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Items 05-16, 17: (Identical in intent)
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Thanks to committee
This concludes the committee report

Prayer

Announcement? None
Recess with prayer by a YAAD
12:02

Eleven of fifteen committees down, four more to go.

Worship after lunch.  Reports resume at 2:30. 
Back then

Greetings — I will be live blogging most plenary sessions of the PC(USA)
General Assembly.  I apologize to those with e-mail feeds or a feed
reader since you will probably only get the first section of the post
since I’ll be adding updates throughout the session.  Also, if you are
reading this on a browser live you will also need to refresh the screen
since I don’t have push technology on my blog.  It’s tough being Web
1.99999 in a Web 2.0 world.  Thanks for your patience.

This is not the only source on the web for this event.
The PC(USA) official webcast can be found at http://www.pcusa.org/ga218/schedule/streaming-schedule.htm
There is also a live blogging site at http://www.scribblelive.com/Event/PCUSA_General_Assembly_218

[My commentary will be in brackets]

FYI: Youth Advisory Delegates are now (or at the next GA) called Young Adult Advisory Delegates, YAADs.

Thursday Evening, June 26, 2008
The 218th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)

7:58 PM
[Yes, I know I’m late, but I was having a great time of fellowship at dinner and stayed a bit longer.  But I made it back for the committee business.]

We have had Speakout and greetings from the ecumenical delegates from Asia.

Resume Committee 8 – Mission Coordination and Budgets
Our story so far…
Just before the dinner recess the Assembly voted, by a narrow margin, to reconsider 08-15 because a staff member’s comments after an amendment passed gave some of the commissioners second thoughts about the amendment.
The commissioners are now debating and asking about the availability of funds for congregational transformation.
Debate is closed by voice vote
We now revote on the previously approved amendment
Advisory have a split vote but YAADs and TSADs  were slightly against.  Commissioner vote against amendment by 58%
There are a couple of blue paddles raised.  The Vice-moderator calls on one
We’ve got the words but I don’t know where it goes.  The intent is to protect money that is supposed to be used only for New Church Development.
Point of order about were we not only considering the amendment?  Why are we revoting on the main motion?
The minutes are being checked
[Comment on the day over on the Scribblelive blog from Stephanie:  “Lets do th Hokey Pokey”]

GAMC Moderator says that the previously approved GAMC manual says that the necessary wording is already in place so this amendment is irrelevant.

Call the question and all pending questions, passed overwhelmingly on voice vote
Electronic voting: Advisory split, commissioners no 67%

Vote on the main motion: Advisory strong yes, commissioners 92% yes

8:23
Item 8-24: Budgetary and Finance Review Concerns
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 8-25:  Group Wind and Hail Insurance
The committee recommends disapproval because the presbytery of origination has asked to do it instead in presbytery consultation and bring it to the 219th
Commissioners vote yes by 92%

Fourth Theme:  Mission Effectiveness

Item 08-22: Create a GAC Review Committee
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 08-23: Evaluating the Standards of Review
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 08-16: Review of GAC Advisory Committees
Questions about the current review processes
Amendment about composition of the review committee.
Apparently this exactly undoes the committee action and there is a question if this should have been done as a minority report.  A member of the committee says that she tried to file a minority report but was told to do it on the floor.
[The place is getting tired and punch-drunk.  This evening could get long]
The question is called, passed on voice vote
Electronic vote: Advisory mostly no; Commissioners vote no by 63%
Main Motion: Advisory vote yes except for ecumenical where yes and abstain tied; commissioners yes

Bills and overtures moves that all remaining commissioner speeches this evening be one minutes
Needs 2/3 to suspend the standing rules
Advisory yes, Commissioners passes with 81%

Item 08-21:  Trust relationships
This was the “shotgun wedding” of the GAMC and the Foundation over designation of funds.
Linda Valentine speaks and states this is acceptable to GAMC
Robert Leech agrees that the Foundation is on board
GAMC chair thanks committee for “being the church for them”
ACC representative in a long statement says that 08-21 is constitutionally sound

No discussion
Passed on a voice vote.

This concludes the committee report, the committee moderator thanks the committee and says they ran out of amendment forms twice.

8:54
General Assembly Nominating Committee
With 08-22 approval the Review Committee needs to be staffed
No challanges
Slate passed on voice vote

8:58
Committee 16 – Worship and Spiritual Renewal
Item 16-01: On reaffirming our common faith in Jesus Christ
No discussion
Approved on voice vote

Item 16-02: A Call to Seek God for the Spiritual Renewal of the Church
A couple of questions
No debate
Approved on voice vote

Report on how the committee worked using a communal discernment process:  Experience was a mixed bag.  A learning experience.  Two committee members walked out and did not return.  A YAAD really appreciated it.  Prior orientation or training would have been helpful.  A third-time commissioner said this was the least frustrating committee experience he’d had.

This concludes the report

9:09
Committee on Theological Education  (That is not a commissioner committee)
Presentation of the Committee on Theological Education Award for Excellence

9:14
Committee 3 – General Assembly Procedures
Consent Agenda approved

Item 03-14: Approval of Associate Stated Clerks
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 03-07: Non-geographic presbyteries
Comments about the history of the proposal and the request for a non-geographic Korean language synod
TSAD speaks in favor of the item but urges the addition of a sunset clause.
No further debate
Passed on voice vote

Item 03-18: Continuation of Hanmi Presbytery
Comments by Committee Moderator
Same TSAD speaks in favor of a sunset clause
Committee member speaks about presbytery still having an influx of new immigrents.
Another speaker points out it is a temporary condition for congregations to transition.  A continuing need for it
Amendment to add a 10 year sunset clause
Commissioner from Hanmi argues that there should be no term limit and does not need to live as a “lame duck.”
Call the question, passed on voice vote
Voice vote: Advisory against, Commissioner against
Amendment to have a sunset clause on the congregations
[Got to be honest, I don’t understand this amendment.  Is it on the presbytery or the churches?  And the length of the sunset clause was not specified!]
Confusing wording does not matter, amendment fails on a voice vote
Vote on the main motion: Electronic: Advisory yes by a wide margin.  Commissioners yes 91%

Item 03-05: Flexible presbytery and synod membership
Committee recommends disapproval
No discussion
Committee recommendation passes on voice vote

Item 03-06: Evaluation of Synod Structure
Committee recommends disapproval
One speaker against, one clarification, One in favor because this will be part of the FOG review
Approved on voice vote

Item 03-20: Creating an office on healing from clergy sexual abuse.
View video
One commissioner who was a member of the San Francisco task force spoke about the need for healing
Another commissioner spoke about the need for resources for “alternative resolution” when a negotiated settlement is reached and there is no clear closure.
Passed on voice vote
One minute of silent prayer for the victims of abuse.

9:54
Item 03-21: Commissioner resolution about financial support for presbyteries’ legal fees on property issues
Allocate $50,000/presbytery for $2,000,000
This will increase the per capita by $0.92
Amend
ment – Add section 3 to create an extra commitment account
(people are lining up at the microphones)
Voice vote too close
Electronic: Advisory split; commissioners vote yes 60%
Debate on the main motion
One commissioner points out that they just could not spend $100,000 on healing abuse victims, has a moral problem now approving $2,000,000 on taking churches to court.
[This may be the quote of the day!]
Debate closed on a voice vote
Advisory vote is YAADs no, others yes; Commissioners 57% yes.

Item 03-09: Eliminate Mission funding in per capita by 2010
Committee recommends disapproval since no alternative plan was offered
One speaker against
Advisory delegates strongly yes, commissioners yes 82%

Item 03-08: On transferring items from the per capita to the mission budget
Committee recommends disapproval – Part of being Presbyterian is to be ecumenical
Debate about ecumenical activity
(Bruce is moving things along by suggesting calling the question)
Motion to call the question
Electronic: Advisory strongly yes; Commissioners yes 77%

Item 03-10 and 03-11:
Disapprove these items for the same reasons on 03-08
No discussion
Electronic vote:  Advisory delegates strongly yes; Commissioners yes 82%

Commissioner rises to criticize the Moderator for coercing debate by suggesting calling the question

Item 03-16 Recommendation 1: GA Per Capita Proposal
No discussion
Approved on voice vote

Item 03-16 #2-6
No discussion
Approved on voice vote

Item 03-16 #7
(rattling off line item amounts.  Any eyes that were not glazed over are now)
No discussion
Approve on voice vote
“The ayes are getting sleepier”

Item 03-03: Amending and suspending the standing rules
Committee recommends being approved as amended
[This is the amendment I missed so it is only amending but not suspending]
No discussion
Approved on voice vote

Item 03-22:
No discussion
Approved on a voice vote

Item 03-23: Publishing full audits
Committee recommends disapproval
Congregations need only publish that the audit has been done.  For PC(USA) the full audit would be substantial
Staff says that GAC/OGA publishes audits on web sites.  All others available if you want it
Amendment to publish electronically
Bruce points out that this motion is to disapprove, need to defeat this one first
Question called, passed on voice vote
Main motion passes on voice vote

Item 03-24: Amending standing rules
Committee recommends disapproval
No discussion
Committee recommendation passes on voice vote

Items for information on which the committee took final action

This concludes the committee report

(This concludes the afternoon docket.)

Bruce suggests one more committee.  Motion to plow on through.  Voice vote close

Committee 14 – Review of GA Permanent Committees.

Item 14-01 #1
Question about jumping around item numbers (this is a question that has been waiting a while and relates to the previous committee report)
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 14-01 #2
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 14 Recommendations 1 #1-4
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 14 Recommendation 2
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 14 Recommendation 3
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 14 Recommendation 4
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 14 Recommendation 5
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 14 Report #3 Recommendation #1
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

Item 14 Report #3 Recommendation #2
Question where to find it on PC-biz?
No discussion
Passed on voice vote

There was a lot of confusion if this can be found on PC-biz
None of us in the gallery could find it.

about 500 motions to recess.  About the same number of seconds
Closing prayer
Recessed – Back in the morning