Monthly Archives: June 2008

The 218th General Assembly of the PC(USA) — Live Blogging Thursday Morning

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Greetings — I will be live blogging most plenary sessions of the PC(USA)
General Assembly.  I apologize to those with e-mail feeds or a feed
reader since you will probably only get the first section of the post
since I’ll be adding updates throughout the session.  Also, if you are
reading this on a browser live you will also need to refresh the screen
since I don’t have push technology on my blog.  It’s tough being Web
1.99999 in a Web 2.0 world.  Thanks for your patience.

This is not the only source on the web for this event.
The PC(USA) official webcast can be found at http://www.pcusa.org/ga218/schedule/streaming-schedule.htm
There is also a live blogging site at http://www.scribblelive.com/Event/PCUSA_General_Assembly_218

[My commentary will be in brackets]

Comments from overnight:
Asking around it is still not clear exactly who was protesting outside the Assembly hall yesterday but it was an outside organization who told anyone who walked by in no uncertain terms that if they were associated with the PC(USA), no matter what their theological leanings, they were going to Hell.  This was because of the denominations positions on GLBT individuals.  Cliff reported that the police were called but the protesters were within their free speech rights if they stayed in the area they were in.

I also found out why my lungs hurt:  The late news showed the smoke from the fires up north blowing over the Bay Area.  And a change in wind direction won’t help since then we will get the smoke from the fires in the other direction.

Thursday Morning, June 26, 2008
The 218th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)
8:20 AM 
— The commissioner chairs are filling up.  People are filing in.  The observer section is about one-tenth full.

8:30 — The Assembly is gaveled to order and opened in prayer with a three-part song based on Micah 6:8 and prayer

8:36 — Ecumenical greetings from Reformed/Reconstructionist Jewish representative and the Buddhist Churches of America

8:43 — Bruce thanks everyone for all the parliamentary advice, solicited and not.

8:44 — Bills and Overtures: Recommends that time per speaker be reduced from three to two minutes.  [The time crunch is starting early this year]  Passes on voice vote but a notable no vote.

8:45 — Financial implications:  No items yesterday had financial implications.

8:46 — Stated Clerk reviews procedures for acting on nominations when there are challenges.

8:49 — Mission budget financial implications:  Bruce had skipped it.  There were some financial implications, but as the committee moderator said “even without the report we’ll spend money anyways.

8:51 — Nominating Committee Report:  Awaiting Assembly action later today item 00-01 Z, Y and Z [got to love the business numbering] will not be voted on now.

All unchallenged nominees are approved on a voice vote.

Challenge of Stewart Pollock by Darly Fisher-Ogden for ACC.  Speakers here still get three minutes.
Stewart Pollock approved

Challenge of A. Bates Butler by Edward Glady for GAPJC
Ecumenical delegates favored the challenger, commissioners approve Mr. Butler

Challenge of Bradley Copeland by Kenneth Working for GAPJC [This is a challenge for my synod’s seat.  I don’t know Mr. Copeland, but I greatly respect Mr. Working]
YAADs advise Ken Working; Commissioners elect Mr. Copeland by 58%.  [That is close for a floor challenge.]

Challenge of H. Clifford Looney by Ted Fairfield for GAPJC
Mr. Looney approved by a wide margin

9:29 — Two minute break

9:33  [Bruce is serious about this being two minutes]
Challenge of Lois Clarke by James Mead for the Foundation Board
Advisory: Committee nominee by a wide margin; Commissioners: The same, Clarke by 80%

Challenge of Karen Garrett by J. Oscar McCloud for the Foundation Board
Advisory 2/3 – 1/3 for Garrett; Commissioners 71% for Garrett

Challenge of Doug McArthur by Gay Mothershed for the Foundation Board  [Gay serves on the Council for Certification of Elders.  That is a new one on me.  A quick Google search brings up nothing quickly]
[Bruce once again stumbles on Rev. Janet Schlenker’s name.  She reply’s to call her Janet.]
Question from the floor about the letters following each nominee’s name.  Those are the diversity information that most of us take for granted and read in our sleep.
Advisory vote for nominee by a wide margin.  Commissioners the same – 75% for McArthur

From the Moderator of the 217th GA – Nominees to the GA Nominating Committee
Three are challenged

Challenge of William King by Catherine Purves for the Nominating Committee
[Both speakers presented their nominees very well]
Advisory vote divided:  YAAD and TSAD close, Missionary overwhelmingly for King, Ecumenical overwhelmingly for Purves
Commissioners: Purves by 53% – First challenger to win

Challenge of Joan Carpenter by Phyllis Spielmann for the Nominating Committee
[I know Joan as chair of our synod nominating committee and she is a very hard worker.  I don’t know much about Phyllis.]
Advisory vote strongly for Carpenter; Commissioners elect Carpenter by 75%
[And on a personal note, I now need to find a new member and chair of our synod nominating committee.]

Challenge of Roger Howell by Charles Youther for the Nominating Committee
Advisory vote strongly for Howell;  Commissioners elect Howell by 71%

That concludes the nominating reports.
[The results were typical for GA, one challenger was elected.  My gut reaction is that this was more challenges than normal.  But the two major bodies were the Foundation Board and the Nominating Committee indicating were the “hot points” are this year.]

10:25 – The Stated Clerk is called on for comments about the process of amending from the floor

10:27 – One minute stretch

10:28 – Bruce “We are doing a chronos minute not a kairos minute”
Committee 13 – Theological Issues and Institutions
Resume arrested report
Consent Agenda approved

Item 13-06: Heidelberg Catechism
There is a minority report
The committee chair speaks to “initiating a process” so the committee at least intends the constitutional process

Minority report argues that changing the current version will not change anything and lead to years of fighting.

Stated Clerk gives the review of the minority report/substitute motion process.  He also explains the Book of Confessions amendment process and that this must go through it.

Perfecting the main motion.
(Instead of perfecting the main motion the commissioners are asking financial questions.)
There are no amendments.  The main motion is declared perfected.

Perfecting the substitute motion
A commissioner asks to have some theological background on this and asks former GA Moderator Jack Rodgers to speak to it.  (Former moderators are corresponding members and have the privilege of the floor.)
The substitute motion is declared perfected with one clarifying amendment.
And the lines at the microphones are getting long.

The debate on the two motions begins:
Jack Rodgers speaks about the history of the translation and the story about the phrase inserted by two translators.  Confessional documents should not be about the theological controversies at the time of translation but at the time of writing.

10:55 [One hour left in the morning session and we may not finish Committee 3 since Belhar is still to come.]
One commissioner is shut off when he uses up his time.
Another brings up the “elephant in the room” and that this is just a subtle attempt by progressives to shift the denomination.
Those favoring the main motion pretty much appeal to the integrity of the translation
Those favoring the minority report appeal to the historic nature of it, that the translation is compatible with the original author’s intent,
A YAD speaks about our constantly reforming theology and how without it the Moderator nor Vice-moderator would be serving there now as they are racial-ethnic

Move to call the question:  Succeeds by 85%
Prayer
Advisory delegates generally in favor of main motion
Commissioners: Main motion by 71%

Now debating the main motion
Similar arguments as before.
Question about the Greek in the Corinthians passage one of the disputed passages depends on.  Request Prof. Gagnon respond.  He would need to be granted the privilege of the floor.  Debate moves on.
Don’t let doctrine inform confessions, let confessions inform doctrine (that is an argument against)
Against – People in the pews don’t care
Professional translator – Unethical to insert your own words

Move the question – Passes by voice vote
Vote on the Main motion:  Advisory delegates mostly 3/4 yes; Commissioners: 60% yes

Motion that 13-06 answer 13-04, 13-05, and 13-10.

Item 13-07 as amended:  Belhar
No discussion, passed on voice vote
[That one slid by]
Clerk informs the Assembly what they just did
Call for division
Electronic:  Advisory 80% yes; Commissioners 76% yes
[Boy, did I mis-judge that one!  I was expecting some debate.]
Commissioner arises to question lack of announcement about what was being done.

11:39
Item 13-13: Study guide for the Trinity paper
Passes on voice vote

Concludes Committee Report

Committee 8 takes the stage
Bills and Overtures moves going to the Memorial Minutes for Ben Rose and begin with Committee 8 after lunch< br>Change in docket approved
11:42
Memorial for the [Very ] Rev. Dr. Ben Rose [if we used such terms]

I will end here as we will shortly adjourn for lunch

The 218th General Assembly of the PC(USA) — Live Blogging Wednesday Evening

3 Replies

Greetings — I will be live blogging most plenary sessions of the PC(USA)
General Assembly.  I apologize to those with e-mail feeds or a feed
reader since you will probably only get the first section of the post
since I’ll be adding updates throughout the session.  Also, if you are
reading this on a browser live you will also need to refresh the screen
since I don’t have push technology on my blog.  It’s tough being Web
1.99999 in a Web 2.0 world.  Thanks for your patience.

This is not the only source on the web for this event.
The PC(USA) official webcast can be found at http://www.pcusa.org/ga218/schedule/streaming-schedule.htm
There is also a live blogging site at http://www.scribblelive.com/Event/PCUSA_General_Assembly_218

[My commentary will be in brackets]

Wednesday Evening, June 25, 2008
The 218th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)
7:20 
— The commissioner chairs are filling up.  People are filing in.  The observer section is about one-tenth full.

7:31 — Opening prayer from an ecumenical representative

7:33 — Speak out  (a GA tradition where commissioners and delegates can share what is on their heart.)
Anti-Presbyterian protesters outside, thanks to PDA for Katrina help and other prompt assistance and just caring, compliments to YADs, PC-biz problems and solutions, support Presbyterian colleges.

7:45 — Ecumenical greetings from the Armenian Apostolic Church of Iraq

7:55 — Bills and Overtures with a revised docket since we are running ahead

7:56 — Return to Ecumenical and Interfaith Relations: Peaceful relations between Christian and Muslim Communities.
The Assembly hears from Joe Small, the head of the office of Theology and Worship that Christians, Jews and Muslims are the monotheistic religions that are spiritual descends of Abraham.
Amendment to the amendment – grammatical rewording, could have been friendly if there was such a thing.
Question from the floor and we are headed into “polity hell.”  Isn’t this a substitute motion?  Clerk: no, it is strike and replace.  Next speaker: If this is an amendment to an amendment and is strike and replace we need to see what was struck to be replaced.
8:08 Last two speakers should be out of order since they are actually speaking to the full item, not this one little editorial change.  Bruce is showing grace.
Committee moderator suggests hearing from the head of the Islamic Council of North America.  Bruce agrees.  He notes that just as Christianity don’t have a singular concept of God, neither do Muslims.  But the bridge within Christianity and also within Islam, and what should be between them as well, is the concept of one God as creator.
8:17 Question is called on the two amendments.  [One of the first time I have seen the question called on more than one, but not all items.]
Break to get things up on the screen, Cliff is having words with Bruce.
8:28 End of break.  This GA seems technologically challenged on points.  And the different amendments in different colors are challenging to read on the screen.
Voting on first amendment: Advisory vote: YADs and EADs are very close.  Commissioners reject by 81%
Voting on the higher amendment:  Advisory vote: Not nearly as close, generally in favor.  Commissioners: 53% yes
Back to debate on the main motion, now amended.
Move to amend: Strike the while controversial section that we have been discussing about one God or children of Abraham.
8:38  One particular commissioner speaker has again risen with an out-of-order motion
Move the question and all pending questions
Electronic vote:  YADS, bare majority
Commissioners: 73%  all debate is closed.
A commissioner speaks that they still do not have PC-biz
Voting on amendment to strike section 2: Advisory: Yads no, TSADs tie; Commissioners: 52% no
Back to the main motion as amended
Electronic voting:  Advisory: Yes; Commissioners: 78% yes

Item 07-02:  Response to an invitation to interfaith dialog
No discussion:  passed on voice vote

At this point we are moving quickly and all the remaining items, including the referral of 07-03 about the Evangelical Presbyterian Church behavior, are being passed with no discussion and voice vote.
We are moving so fast that a commissioner complains that the PC-biz SessionSync doesn’t keep up.

8:50  Comment added to 07-04 about the Covenant Relationship with the Korean Presbyterian Church in America
Comment added and the item passed on voice vote.

Motion to Reconsider 07-02, another commissioner complains that he did not have time to get to a microphone.
Motion fails on voice vote.

Item 07-11:  Episcopal Presbyterian Agreement
Bruce waits for people to head for microphones.  One speaker.
Passes on a voice vote.

Committee Resolution honoring Clifton Kirkpatrick for his ecumenical work.  Read in entirety and passed by voice vote.  Followed by a video tribute to his ecumenical work.

9:10 — The committee concludes their report

Committee 17 – Youth
[This should be interesting because it is one of the non-traditional committees, it was generative.]
There was no business to start but by Tuesday afternoon they had generated eleven items.  The committee needed to have a 3/4 vote to bring new business to the floor.

Item 17-1NB (the NB is for New Business)
Send the DVD “Soul Searching: A Movie About Teenagers and God” to every Presbytery and prepare a study guide.
Amendment to promote “active listening.”
Now Vice-moderator Byron Wade is getting his sea legs
This was presented to committee and voted down at that time
Vote on the amendment:  Electronic: Advisory overwhelmingly no; Commissioners 89% no
There is a book, do we need the study guide?  Yes, because the book is very thick.
Comment that section shown did not contain African American youth.  Reply, African Americans are well represented.
Copyright issues for study guide?  Permissions included in cost.

Voting on main motion:  Advisory: YADS almost all yes, Missionary not as strong; Commissioners: 97% yes.

9:33
Item 17-2NB: On Mentors
Encourage commissioners and others around the church to mentor youth.
Little discussion, nearly unanimous vote by raising hands

Item 17-3NB:  Create a task force primarily composed of youth to continue this work
The committee report does not list the financial implications
Speaker for about investing in youth
Speaker against concerned that parameters are not well defined.
Speaker questions the 15-21 age emphasis when we lose young adults above 21.  Response that the 15-21 was the committee’s charge.  Above 21 has other implications culturally
Financial implications:  None since there was already a similar program in the budget.
Moved the previous question: Passes overwhelmingly.
Electronic vote on main motion:  Advisory delegates vote overwhelmingly in favor;  Commissioners 91% yes.

Item 17-4NB:  Matters to refer to the new Youth Task Force
No Discussion, passes on voice vote.

Item 17-5NB:  Name change for YADs – From Youth Advisory Delegates to Young Adult Advisory Delegates
Youth in the church is 12-18 and YADs are 17-23.  Not Youth.
[How do we pronounce it?  Is it still one syllable like “YAD”?  The Texan next to me says its “YAAAAAAD”]
One YAD spoke strongly for it.
Passed on voice vote

Item 17-1: Commissioner Resolution to allow youth volunteers at GA.
Committee recommendation is to disapprove
Signer of resolution speaks to approve resolution
[This is going to get tricky because voting “yes” is voting “yes” on the committee recommendation, not the commissioner resolution so voting yes is really voting no.]
This is a legal liability issue.
Cliff speaks to the issue of what a yes and no vote, but still uses confusing language.
The YAAD that spoke next actually stated it clearly and accurately [WAY TO GO!] [And when do we stop using YAD and start using YAAD?]
Move the previous question, and it sounded like 2/3 of the Assembly seconded it
Electronic voting:  Advisory delegates: YAAD’s 75% yes, Commissioners 88% yes

This concludes the report of Committee 17

10:04
Commissioner motion to recess for the evening
The Stated Clerk indicates they would like to do one more item of business.
The motion to recess is defeated.

Committee 13 – Theological Issues and Institutions
Item 13-02:  Approve the President of Union Theological Seminary
No discussion, approved by voice vote
Seminary presidents are introduced.
President Rev. Brian Blount addresses the assembly

The corresponding
member section and the observer section is pretty empty

Motion to arrest the report
Approved by standing for dismissal
Closing prayer
We are adjourned until tomorrow morning.
10:15 PM

The 218th General Assembly of the PC(USA) — Live Blogging Wednesday Afternoon

2 Replies

Greetings — I will be live blogging most plenary sessions of the PC(USA)
General Assembly.  I apologize to those with e-mail feeds or a feed
reader since you will probably only get the first section of the post
since I’ll be adding updates throughout the session.  Also, if you are
reading this on a browser live you will also need to refresh the screen
since I don’t have push technology on my blog.  It’s tough being Web
1.99999 in a Web 2.0 world.  Thanks for your patience.

This is not the only source on the web for this event.
The PC(USA) official webcast can be found at http://www.pcusa.org/ga218/schedule/streaming-schedule.htm
There is also a live blogging site at http://www.scribblelive.com/Event/PCUSA_General_Assembly_218

[My commentary will be in brackets]

Wednesday Afternoon, June 25, 2008
The 218th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)
2:20 
— The commissioner chairs are filling up.  People are filing in.  The observer section is about one-quarter full.

2:31 — Moderator Bruce Reyes-Chow gavels the Assembly to order.  We are opened in prayer by a TSAD
2:35 — Greetings from the Ecumenical representative from the AME Zion church
2:37 — Bills and Overtures Committee.  Bring the minutes from Saturday and Sunday for approval.  Approved
Docket for the rest of the plenary
2:38 — Approval of the Rev. Byron Wade as Vice-moderator of the 218th.  Confirmed and he is being installed at this time.

2:49 — Finished the installation with the singing of the Doxology.  And Bruce admits that he can not sing.

2:50 — GAC Nominating committee reports two GA Commissioners have been nominated for the positions with the GAC.  Four more are needed and the deadline for nominations have been extended

2:52 — The Stated Clerk is giving info on speaking to orient the commissioners, or remind them what they heard last Saturday afternoon.  It has been a long week.
Now talking about making motions and using the motions form.  And the help available from stated clerks around the hall.  The information about dissents and protests if being covered.  Now the info on “moving the previous question.”  Finally, the process for “substitute motions.”  [This will get a lot of people confused the first few times it happens.]
The next topic is consent items and review of the voting systems.

And the GA is not paperless:  Paper copies of committee reports will be distributed.  This is a back up since PC-biz has been rough the last few days.

3:04 — Another orientation to PC-biz, this time including the green check marks following committee and Assembly action.  But still problems with SessionSync.  [I can see the slowness from the load]

3:08 — Presentation on the centennial of Presbyterian Camps and Conference Centers.

3:18 — The regular presentation of the financial implications to the per capita and mission budgets of commissioner actions.  Nothing has been approved yet so just reporting background.
My mistake.  They are reporting the proposed but not yet approved based on completed committee reports

3:27
Report of Committee 15:  Pensions, Foundation, and Publishing Corporation
There is no consent agenda on PC-biz
Report from the Board of Pensions about the CREDO program.  Eight day conference of renewal and reflection on their ministry.
Item 15-01 – No discussion, passed on voice vote.
Item 15-02 as amended – Relief of conscience plan annually.  No discussion, passed on voice vote
Item 15-03 – No discussion, passed on voice vote
Item 15-04 – No discussion, passed on voice vote
Item 15-05 with comment – No discussion, passed on voice vote
[The item is to confirm Robert Leech as president of the Foundation.  The comment commends Mr. Leech for his work.  The GAC may have a different view based on the GAC disagreement.]
Item 15-06 – No discussion, passed on voice vote
Back to 15-05 – Mr. Leech given three minutes to address assembly.  Announced the winners of the Youth Video Challenge.
Item 15-07 – To confirm Mr. Mark Lewis as the President of the Publishing Corporation.  No Discussion, passed on voice vote.  Mr. Lewis given three minutes to address assembly.

This concludes the report of Committee 15

Bruce: “See, this is easy”

3:42
Report of Committee 15: Church Growth and Christian Education
Consent agenda moved and passed

Item 12-01 – Strategy for Church Growth for African-American Congregations
Three minute presentation
Move to an advisory vote to exercise their arms.  Now raised hands for commissioners.  Passes overwhelmingly.

3:50
Item 12-02 – Grow God’s Church Deep and Wide
Three minute presentation by Tom Taylor, Deputy GAC Executive
Not just growing the numbers, but growing the individual members spiritually. Not one-size-fits-all but a call to action.  Plugs presbygrow.net.  [They are the ones with the Follow Mii t-shirts]  Move to video — looks like video was made interviewing people here about what particular churches are doing
Motion on the floor.  We have our first question from the floor!  Speaker in favor of the motion.
Passed on voice vote

4:03
Item 12-03, 05 – PILP approved in consent agenda

Item 12-04 – Jay Hudson confirmed as the President of PILP
Mr. Hudson addresses the Assembly

Item 12-06 – Advisory vote passes, commissioner vote passes both on voice

Item 12-07 – Children’s day, the Committee Recommends Disapproval
Committee recommendation (that is the item is disapproved) on voice vote but there was significant no votes.

4:12
Item 12-08 – Adolescence human development resources, with comment about setting aside differences
Speaker against.  I think he was on the committee.
YAD and minister from the originating presbytery speak in favor.
Bruce is still getting his sea legs on the debate system
Question about financial implications – Editor talks about costs and need to sell the curriculum for $60+
Motion to amend: Produce with 2011 budget year funds.
4:23 Amendment fails on voice vote
YAD speaks against and asks for someone who can to make an amendment that requires balanced views.  Reads text of his committee amendment that was misplaced in committee.
Amendment maker is not ready and Bruce moves on.
There are a lot of YADs speaking in this debate.
The commissioner is ready with his amendment.
4:34 It has now been posted Bruce: “it is my understanding that it is appropriate.  Welcome to General Assembly.”
One speaker against, no one lined up to speak in favor, Bruce moves to an electronic vote.  TSADs and YADs split, YADS no.  Commissioners vote no.
Back to the main motion.
Question about one of the original Assembly Committee on Women’s Concerns comments on the overture.  Committee representative answers question and then goes too far in advocacy and Bruce rules her out of order.
Commissioner moves YAD’s proposed amendment.
One against, someone tries to make an unrelated amendment so sits down, The YAD that originally mentioned it is now speaking for it.
Motion to close debate on this and all previous questions.  Passes on near unanimous hand vote.
Advisory delegates opposed on hand vote.  Commissioners opposed on hand vote.
(Commissioners are running to their seats for the final vote)
Final vote electronically carries in both advisory and commissioners by a wide margin.
This concludes the committee report

4:54
Bills and Overtures moves to continue on to Committee 7 since the Assembly is ahead of docket. (Moved up from after dinner) [This could be arrested for dinner since there are a couple of controversial issues.]
Approved

Committee 7 – Ecumenical and Interfaith Relations
Greetings from the National Council of Churches
Presbyterian heritage stretches from “Calvin to Kirkpatrick”

Consent Agenda approved

5:04
Item 07-05: Ecumenical Policy Statement
Presentation about development of statement.  Statement will guide PC(USA) for the next decade
Passed on voice vote

Interfaith relationships
Item 07-07:  No discussion, passed on voice vote
Item 07-01: Tolerance and and Peaceful Relations between the Christian and Muslim Communities
The item was amended by the committee to eliminate “worship the same God.”
Blue paddles for amendments
5:09
First speaker proposes amendment.  Changes
from worship the same God to share commandments.  Muslim leaders don’t necessarily think we worship the same God.
(People lined up at most microphones)
Debate continues and requests for interpretation from Office of Theology
No one to speak to Theology
Going to adjourn for dinner

Gradye gives announcments
Ecumenical delegate gives closing prayer
5:32 Adjourn
See you after dinner

The 218th General Assembly of the PC(USA) — Committee Institutional Recommendations

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In addition to those major polity recommendations several committees will be bringing reports with major changes to the PC(USA) structure.  Probably chief among these is Committee 8 – Mission Coordination and Budget, where practically their whole agenda dealt with these types of issues.

The really big issue was the disagreement, to put it politely, between the General Assembly Council and one of their divisions, the Presbyterian Foundation.  I have already commented on the pro-active campaign that the Foundation has waged to fend off their supervisor the Council, and there are comments by Council Member Michael Kruse as well.  And I heard one story from a speaker at the open hearing who was chased down by a Foundation executive concerning their comments.

Maybe the best account of this is the one by Michael since he was there and had a horse in the race.  I just had a YAD at the table but I’ve not had a chance to debrief him on this one but in the midst of it at a break he was pumping me for a quick refresher on some of what I know.

Anyway, the committee basically told the GAC and Foundation to work it out before the committee finished work or they would come up with a solution which might not be favorable to either of them.  Everyone finally worked out a dispute resolution system and this will be in place, pending GA approval, for two years while a formal review of all of GAC’s functions is undertaken.

Committee 8 also will be recommending A Season of Mission Interpretation and a Mission Season Offering.  They also recommended reinstating the Office of Environmental Justice and authorized direct appeals for mission funding.  In addition a host of documents related to GAC, including a name change to the General Assembly Mission Council, were approved by the committee.

Over at Committee 3 – General Assembly Procedures, they are recommending disapproval of flexible presbytery membership, but recommending in favor of flexibility in non-geographic presbyteries membership so churches in another synod could join across synod boundaries.  They disapproved all the requests to change the per-capita system.  They approved a commissioner resolution to provide funds to the presbyteries to cover legal expenses related to fighting the departure of churches, specifically to the EPC and New Wineskins Transitional Presbytery.

In a related item, Committee 7 – Ecumenical Relations, refereed the request to investigate the actions of the EPC in recruiting churches to the GA Committee on Ecumenical Relations.

Well, that is some of the stuff.  I would also note that Committee 3 will be bringing a recommendation to change the standing rules so that it takes a 2/3 vote of the standing rules to suspend or change the rules.  While I understand the intent, that undoes a protection of the minority that is inherent in Roberts Rules of Order and I am not in favor of that one.

Anyway, off to the meeting and the live blog.  We’ll try to get everything there.

The 218th General Assembly of the PC(USA) — Committee Polity Recommendations

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There is a lot that came out of committees yesterday and I will try to highlight a few items today before the full Assembly begins meeting this afternoon.

For organizational purposes I will break these into a couple of different posts.  Let me begin with Polity.

Ordination Standards
Committee 5 – Church Orders and Ministry had to deal with the ordination standards.  One item is the Authoritative Interpretation from the 217th General Assembly.  This has become a ping-pong game between the General Assembly and the General Assembly Permanent Judicial Commission.  Since neither inherently over rules the other, the most recent to speak has the upper hand.  The 217th General Assembly passed the Authoritative Interpretation proposed by the Theological Task Force on Peace, Unity and Purity about declaring exceptions to non-essentials.  Last February the GAPCJ in the Bush decision said that candidates could declare exceptions, but that Presbyteries could not waive rules.

There were proposals before the committee to rescind the 217th AI, and proposals for a new AI as the return volley in the polity ping-pong match.  The committee, by a vote of 43 to 15, chose to answer all the items in this category with item 05-12 where the committee crafted a new AI:

The 218th General Assembly (2008) affirms the authoritative interpretation of G-6.0108 approved by the 217th General Assembly (2006). Further, the 218th General Assembly (2008), pursuant to G-13.0112,
interprets the requirements of G-6.0108 to apply equally to all
ordination standards of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.). Section
G-6.0108 requires examining bodies to give prayerful and careful
consideration, on an individual, case-by-case basis, to any departure
from an ordination standard in matters of belief or practice that a
candidate may declare during examination. However, the examining body
is not required to accept a departure from standards, and cannot excuse
a candidate’s inability to perform the constitutional functions unique
to his or her office (such as administration of the sacraments).

Note the wording to answer the GAPJC decision:  The reference “apply equally to all ordination standards” since the GAPJC cited that G-6.0106b was lifted up as a particular standard, and the reference to “departure…in matters of belief and practice” since the GAPJC said belief could be scrupled but practice could not be waived.

If this is adopted we will see what the return volley looks like.

The other item is the removal/modification of G-6.0106b.  The committee by a 41/11/0 vote chose a “middle road” here and has answered all those overtures with item 05-09.  This item would rewrite that paragraph.

Current G-6.0106b Proposed G-6.0106b
b.Those
who are called to office in the church are to lead a life in obedience
to Scripture and in conformity to the historic confessional standards
of the church. Among these standards is the requirement to live either
in fidelity within the covenant of marriage between a man and a woman
(W-4.9001), or chastity in singleness. Persons refusing to repent of
any self acknowledged practice which the confessions call sin shall not
be ordained and/or installed as deacons elders, or ministers of the
Word and Sacrament.		 b. Those
who are called to ordained service in the church, by their assent to
the constitutional questions for ordination and installation
(W-4.4003), pledge themselves to live lives obedient to Jesus Christ
the Head of the Church, striving to follow where he leads through the
witness of the Scriptures, and to understand the Scriptures through the
instruction of the Confessions. In so doing, they declare their
fidelity to the standards of the Church. Each governing body charged
with examination for ordination and/or installation (G-14.0240 and
G-14.0450) establishes the candidate’s sincere efforts to adhere to
these standards.

Many of the headlines circulating around are declaring the removal of G-6.0106b but this is only partially correct.  They are correct that 1) if adopted by the GA, and 2) if adopted by the presbyteries, the current language would be gone.  But in a strict sense it is being replaced by more flexible wording.  This will be a long and drawn out issue, both on the floor, and there is a minority report, and again in the presbyteries.  I should note however that the committee added a comment to say “Presbyteries are strongly encouraged to consider this overture using a process of listening and discernment.”

I should also note that this item would also add to chapter 14 of the Book of Order language that those being ordained must declare their readiness to assert to the constitutional questions.

Ordination Vows
The Committee on Church Polity, in item 04-02, crafted new language that requires new members of the church do answer the same questions as confirmands in front of the congregation.  This language includes the questions by reference where the original overture listed out the questions.

Definition of Marriage
The Committee on Church Polity, in their longest and most heated issue, also debated changing the Book of Order language to make marriage between two people, not just between a man and a woman (item 04-08).  By a vote of 38/20/2 they voted to deny the request with comment that includes the wording “while
trusting that the Church (PCUSA) will continue to seek ways and means
to seek God’s blessing for alternative forms of covenant between two
people.”  At the present time I see no minority report posted for this one.

Form of Government Revision
From pretty close to the beginning it was becoming probable that the nFOG would be recommended out to the Presbyteries for study, reflection, and comment.  The committee than decided, by a 45/20/1 vote that the comments would then go back to an “enhanced” FOG Task Force.  This would be composed of a core of the original task force supplemented by others from around the church, including representatives from this committee.  The report also contains an “unedited” list of comments on the nFOG.

Those are the major items.  There are a bunch of other recommended changes to the Book of Order but these are the high-profile issues.

The PC(USA) General Assembly — Tuesday Afternoon Update

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A quick update on where some committee items stand at this moment

The nFOG committee has decided that the substitute motion will be the main motion.  While the recommendation is not finalized, and there are some interesting polity issues embedded in it, as pointed out by the ACC representative, the committee wants the PC(USA) to send to churches and presbyteries the nFOG report and form a new task force to consider the responses and revise the FOG revision for the 219th GA.

The Mission Coordination and Budget Committee spent much of the day on item 08-21 about allowing the GAC to have some control over designated funds at the Foundation.  It is not resolved yet, but the sense of the committee is that they will recommend a proposal to have GAC and Foundation work out their differences.  It has gone back to the writing committee and they will consider a new/final version at the end of their docket.

Finally, last I checked PC-biz, the Committee on Polity was debating 04-08, the Baltimore overture to change the definition of marriage from between a man and a woman to between two people.  There is a substitute motion to comment and keep the current wording.  Results as they become available.

The PC(USA) General Assembly — Tuesday Noon Update

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At noon on Tuesday the numerous committees are in a variety of places.  Asking around it looks like Christian Education will finish up early this afternoon.  Health Issues has a few items to finish up and then it will get to its last item, single-payer health care.  Like that is going to be finished any time soon.  Mission Coordination and Budget is moving along and will probably finish at a reasonable time. But that has got to be ground-zero for the PC(USA) institution since almost all the top professional and elected members of the GAC are sitting in there.  And church polity before lunch had just finished their open hearings on the definition of marriage and were beginning on the two items on equal rights for the families of same-gendered partners.  Get the caffeine ready there as well.

I’m currently sitting in Form of Government revision, they are calling it nFOG in the committee, where they are SLOOOOOWLY moving to referring it back to the whole church for study and comment.  There is a substitute motion that they have yet to perfect so I don’t know what that is about at the moment.  The question they are laboring through at the moment, with an amendment to the amendment to the main motion, is trying to decide who will deal with the comments.  It is of course whether it will be the original task force or if a new body who will figure out who the new body’s members will be.  The amendment is in bold on the screen and the amendment is in red.  They spent the morning deciding on how they were going to decide how to move forward.

The amendment just failed but another amendment to the amendment is now being moved.  If there could be an amendment to the amendment to the amendment this committee would have it.

One of the YADs opened his question with “I haven’t seen the substitute motion in a very, very long time.”

More later as they dig themselves out of this.

The PC(USA) General Assembly — What are they thinking?

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Committee 13 – Theological Issues and Institutions voted yesterday on the overtures to change the Heidelberg Catechism.  There were three overtures to consider with three different approaches.  The committee chose the simplest, but, as far as I can tell, an unconstitutional approach.

Just for reference the Book of Order has this to say about changing the Book of Confessions:
G-18.0200

2. Confessional Documents
a . Amendments to the confessional documents of this church may be made only in the following manner:
(1) The approval of the proposed amendment by the General Assembly and its recommendation to the presbyteries;
(2) The approval in writing of two thirds of the presbyteries;
(3) The approval and enactment by the next ensuing General Assembly.
b . Before such amendments to the confessional documents shall be transmitted to the presbyteries, the General Assembly shall appoint a committee of elders and ministers, numbering not less than fifteen, to consider the proposal, of whom not more than two shall be from any one synod. This committee shall consult with the committee or governing body (or in the latter case an agent thereof) in which the amendment originated, and report its recommendation to the next ensuing General Assembly.

The committee recommendation is that item 13-06 be approved and answer items 13-04 and 13-05.  This overture basically says, just make a few specific changes in five of the questions in the Catechism.  The others were two versions within the system required by G-18.0200.  The Presbyterian News Service article on this is not helpful on this polity nuance.

There was disagreement because 13-06 was approved 33/26/2.  The vote to have the other two overtures answered by this one was 40/6/12.

In the adopted recommendation there is no mention of the amendment process, no mention of even sending it to the Presbyteries.

I would love to have been there because I figured that 13-06, being contrary to the Book of Order as I understand it, would be quickly defeated.  I would like to hear what discussion the committee had.  What advice did they get?  What is their reasoning that this is decent and in order?

I’m sure all of this will come out in the committee report to the full Assembly and I can’t wait to hear the polity logic on this one.

The PC(USA) General Assembly — More Comments on Monday Committee Meetings

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I moved around several committees today, seeing what was going on.  The first full day of committee meetings is usually a little slower as the committees tackle some of the less controversial issues to get their “sea legs” before tackling their controversial issues.  I even heard a report that one of the committees that would be using consensus instead of parliamentary procedure spent the morning trying to come to a consensus about how they were going to work by consensus.

Some of the meetings had interesting topics going.  Some of the committee meetings were getting bogged down in polity at times. (What else is new)  And I saw a couple of cases where the commissioner presiding seemed overwhelmed by the polity.  One such case was where a committee member made a motion to allow the committee members to ask questions of the speakers at the open hearings.  After some back and forth a vote was taken, then the front table huddled for a few minutes as Robert’s Rules was pulled out.  I suspect there was something else going on, but the ruling by the chair was that since the vote was tied the motion was defeated.  I would hope that an elder or minister in the PC(USA) would not need Robert’s Rules for that.  The irony of course is that in our quest to do thing decently and in order they probably used up more time than the questions to the speakers would have taken.

One of the interesting discussions was in Committee 3 – General Assembly Procedures.  I caught the committee debate on overture 102 dealing with the continuation of Hanmi Presbytery.  An interesting coincidences in this was that the YAD from Hanmi Presbytery was on the committee so she was able to provide some very moving testimony.  She was in favor of the overture and said that the Presbytery, while technically being transitional, is beloved by the second generation as well as the first.  Much discussion was spent on whether there should be a “sunset clause” or if the presbytery should be authorized indefinitely.  It was noted that of the four Korean language presbyteries two do not have sunset clauses.  In the case of Hanmi it is 25 years old and began with a 15 year life and that was extended by another 10 years which is about to expire, hence this overture.  It was also noted that past transitional presbyteries had lifetimes as long as 40 years.  The discussion was complicated by a motion to call the previous question that the committee moderator did not recognize the second to, and that caused some groans.  But the parliamentarian also noted that the original motion to call the question was out of order to begin with because the maker of the motion spoke to the issue first.  The next time that a motion was made to call the question there was a resounding chorus of “Second!” from a bunch of committee members.  After the motion with a sunset clause was defeated the committee passed the overture as delivered to them to let Hanmi continue indefinitely.

I then sat in on the end of the open hearings on Committee 6 – Form of Government Revision.  It should surprise no one that there were plenty of speakers to this and the ones that I heard at the end were almost all against it.  One even ripped off the current Form of Government section from his Book of Order to show that it was not any shorter.  (For my analysis of the size you can read my comments from January.)

There were a couple of comments that were sort of “neutral” in the sense that they presented some points that could be corrected now by amendment.  Among these were points made by a representative of the General Assembly Permanent Judicial Commission.  These include the fact that the new FOG does not recognize GA PJC decisions as authoritative, that changes to G-9.0505b and G-9.0705 removing time limits to give more flexibility (something the rFOG does a lot of) could lead to the loss of due process, and that any wording change to a section in the Book of Order causes the loss of existing “Interpretation History” and that would need to be rebuilt through PJC decisions and GA Authoritative interpretations.  This is part of the loss of “institutional memory” that has concerned me.

A bunch of other comments as well.  One person wanted the Committee on Representation explicitly put back in as a mandated committee because it is a “foundational block” of our polity.  (Not sure exactly where foundational block defined and not sure I would agree if I knew.)  Another pointed out that this is the longest overture in the history of the PC(USA).  There were several comments about being missional:  Some saying churches are doing plenty of mission now with the current polity, others questioning the definition or “missional” premise behind the rFOG.  While the Task Force used one definition of “missional” it still means many things to many people.  And there was one speaker who mentioned the “elephant in the room” and questioned why synods were still included in the rFOG at all since they are only marginally useful and expensive pieces of our infrastructure.  I did a quick check back on the committee at the end of the evening and from the commissioner debate going on it sounded like an up-hill battle for passage by the committee majority.

So those are some of my business observations for the day.  I’m turning in now but I’ve got a lot more non-business observations to share if I ever get time to set them down.

The PC(USA) General Assembly — Monday Committee Meetings and Some Polity Musings

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I can’t remember if I said that I’ll resume live blogging when the plenary reconvenes on Wednesday afternoon.  Today, and probably tomorrow, I spent moving between committee meetings.  I did not see very much through from start to finish but did spend larger chunks of time in Committee 8 – Mission Coordination and Budget and Committee 5 – Church Orders.  I’ll talk about Committee 8, and a couple of others, in briefer detail in a following post, but let me make some comments on Church Orders here.

First, Church Orders is our polity wonk name that is mainly ordination standards so they are dealing with, among other things, PUP report issues and G-6.0106b “fidelity and chastity” issues.

I came in during the overture advocates presentations on 05-03 and 05-18 which were linked together.  Both of these deal with examinations under PUP, commending presbyteries for working on their examination procedures and asking the stated clerk to compile best practices.  And both overtures cite that acknowledgment of sexual orientation must be self acknowledged and the examining body must be consistent in questioning.  And interestingly, in the Standing Rules each overture gets three minutes to speak to the overture, but for 05-03 there were nine concurring presbyteries who also get time.  Lumped together that was eleven speakers total so they had 33 minutes.  The pooled their presentations, it was scripted, choreographed, and with a great PowerPoint presentation.  And it was loaded with scriptural and polity arguments.

Of those polity arguments, two struck me as “interesting.”

The first was their take on the GAPJC “Bush v. Pittsburgh Presbytery” decision last February.  Their claim was that in the Bush decision the GAPJC lifted “fidelity and chastity” to a higher standard since an exception could not be declared for it.

Specifically the Bush decision says:

The church has decided to single out this particular manner of life standard and require church wide conformity to it for all ordained church officers.

So in a technical sense the GAPJC did set this higher, but as they say it was not really themselves that set it higher, but rather “The church has decided…”, it is the whole church by including it in the constitution.  A little later they generalize this with:

Although G-1.0301 permits broad freedom of conscience for members of the church, “in becoming a candidate or officer of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) one chooses to exercise freedom of conscience within certain bounds” (G-6.0108b). G-6.0108a defines the limits of this freedom of conscience for ordained church officers.

One of the interesting arguments made by the overture advocates was that we don’t need to over legislate this but to trust the presbyteries and correct this in the review process inherent in our connectional system.  This is almost exactly the same argument made, and exhibited, at the Presbyterian Church in America General Assembly just concluded when they decided that they did not need a study committee to consider the ordination of women to the diaconate since changes to polity should come from the presbyteries and then later the same day in the review of presbytery records considered an “unsatisfactory exception” when a presbytery’s examination of a teaching elder for membership did not fully examine and classify his views in favor of women elders.  For more on this check out the comment by Scott to my discussion of the debate at the PCA GA.

The other polity item that struck me was the reference to the previous GAPJC decisions and the commissioners’ comments about not being able to ask but that the sexual orientation must be self-acknowledged.  For the most part that is correct, but I would like to clarify from the headnotes of Weir v. Second Presbyterian Church, case 214-5:

Self-acknowledgment: The plain language of the Constitution clearly states that disqualified persons must have self-acknowledged the proscribed sin. Self-acknowledgment may come in many forms. In whatever form it may take, self-acknowledgment must be plain, palpable, and obvious and details of this must be alleged in the complaint.

Examination of Candidates for Ordination and/or Installation: The ordaining and installing governing body is in the best position to determine whether self-acknowledgment is plain, palpable, and obvious, based on its knowledge of the life and character of the candidate. If the governing body has reasonable cause for inquiry based on its knowledge of the life and character of the candidate, it has the positive obligation to make due inquiry and uphold all the standards for ordination and installation.

While the self-acknowledgment need not be verbal, reasonable cause is necessary to investigate further.

As I noted, the overture advocates for these overtures received a significant amount of time due to the number of concurring presbyteries.  After a question from a commissioner, a short conversation with the Stated Clerk, and then praying about it over dinner, the chair of the committee agreed that in fairness the overture advocates for overtures recinding the PUP report should have additional time.

The nature of all these presentations up to this point, filled with scriptural and polity arguments, differed markedly from the presentations that followed regarding the removal or modification of G-6.0106b, the fidelity and chastity section.  These appealed to love, justice, fairness, gifts, call, and pain with very little discussion of scripture or polity.  Needless to say, the theme passage for the General Assembly, Micah 6:8, was regularly cited.

Well, that was the most polity intensive and nuanced discussion I heard today.  Not even the Revised form of Government comments were that good.  So that wraps up Church Orders.  Next I’ll prepare some discussion of the other committees I checked in on.